[INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit

Sun Nov 13 22:47:46 UTC 2022

And here is my take on MIAr (a paper I read at the AOS meeting in 2006; likewise unpublished). Oddly enough, I had just today converted it to unicode fonts, and then Andrew’s interesting paper arrived. Some of this was incorporated in the 1997 UIUC dissertation of my former student, Patrick Marlow “Origin and development of the Indo-Aryan quotatives and complementizers: An areal approach”.

All the best,

Hans Henrich

On 13 Nov2022, at 15:32, Andrew Ollett via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Since Matthew mentioned MIA, I suppose I can share this presentation on clausal complements in Middle Indic, which also contains some observations on the use of iti in Sanskrit (and eṉ- and its cognates in Dravidian languages):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6kq9y55x3oj6k8/presentation.pdf?dl=0<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6kq9y55x3oj6k8/presentation.pdf?dl=0__;!!DZ3fjg!-QAX54UlBXX_zoE2wkdUKzgkE9tc4hyD2BTXlEey0zcReeqPNRXjpK8AH7jDhumeRqZPK9NwROJRdPgY1hKhylPBURgm$>

This is a talk I gave at Chicago in 2018. The work is still unpublished.

Andrew

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:26 PM Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Indology list archive is a valuable repository of knowledge. But the lack of proper search facility makes the information as good as lost and we have to repeat questions/discussions that are already in the archive. See https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2015-July/041594.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2015-July/041594.html__;!!DZ3fjg!-QAX54UlBXX_zoE2wkdUKzgkE9tc4hyD2BTXlEey0zcReeqPNRXjpK8AH7jDhumeRqZPK9NwROJRdPgY1hKhyiJZukwv$>. If a good search feature is enabled, all the past discussions will become accessible.

Regards,

Palaniappan

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Indology List <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Reply-To: "George L. HART" <glhart at berkeley.edu<mailto:glhart at berkeley.edu>>
Date: Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 1:12 PM
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit

V.S. Rajam’s book is an essential one for students of classical Tamil, covering syntax, meter, morphology, etc. What I meant is that to my knowledge no one has made a substantial study of every use of eṉ in Sangam literature. Such a study might include uses of iti in early Sanskrit. For example, in modern Tamil we often find ēṉ eṉṟāl, “If you ask why,” which corresponds exactly to Sanskrit "kuta iti cet.” One wonders how old this usage is in both languages. George Hart

On Nov 12, 2022, at 6:07 PM, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>> wrote:

Dear List Members,

George Hart said:

/// I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be interesting to analyze the uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure anyone has done this. ///

Just to kindle your memory …

Please look into my book “A Reference Grammar of Classical Tamil Poetry, V.S. Rajam, American Philosophical Society, 1992”

Thanks and regards,

V.S. Rajam

On Nov 12, 2022, at 12:54 PM, George L. HART via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be interesting to analyze the uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure anyone has done this. Of course, the use of this construction could be an areal phenomenon — it is not necessarily true that its presence in early Sanskrit is due to Dravidian, though I think it is highly likely, given its richness in Dravidian languages. George Hart

On Nov 12, 2022, at 1:08 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. (Herman) via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

I do not know if the question was about iti as an areal phenomenon. If so, see F.B.J. Kuiper, "The Genesis of a Linguistic Area", IIJ 1968, where, if I remember well, he compares Skt iti with Tamil eṉṟu.

Herman

Herman Tieken

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________________________________

Van: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> namens Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Verzonden: zaterdag 12 november 2022 17:34
Aan: Olivelle, Joseph P <jpo at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:jpo at austin.utexas.edu>>
CC: indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info> <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit

If I remember correctly, the possibility of the "iti" constructions being an areal phenomena have been discussed  for many decades. The best person to provide information regarding this topic may be Hans Hock. I will see if I can locate any of these older publications.

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 6:28 AM Olivelle, Joseph P via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

See the many explanations of ‘iti’ in Gary Tubb and Emery Boose’s book “Scholastic Sanskrit”.

Patrick

> On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:10 AM, Brendan S. Gillon, Prof. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I am wondering if any of you know of articles on the use of `iti' in
> Sanskrit.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Brendan
>
> --
>
> Brendan S. Gillon                       email: brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca<mailto:brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca>
> Department of Linguistics
> McGill University                       tel.:  001 514 398 4868
> 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield
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