And here is my take on MIAr (a paper I read at the AOS meeting in 2006; likewise unpublished). Oddly enough, I had just today converted it to unicode fonts, and then Andrew’s interesting paper arrived. Some of this was incorporated in the 1997 UIUC dissertation of my former student, Patrick Marlow “Origin and development of the Indo-Aryan quotatives and complementizers: An areal approach”.

All the best,

Hans Henrich


On 13 Nov2022, at 15:32, Andrew Ollett via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Since Matthew mentioned MIA, I suppose I can share this presentation on clausal complements in Middle Indic, which also contains some observations on the use of iti in Sanskrit (and eṉ- and its cognates in Dravidian languages):


This is a talk I gave at Chicago in 2018. The work is still unpublished.

Andrew

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:26 PM Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Indology list archive is a valuable repository of knowledge. But the lack of proper search facility makes the information as good as lost and we have to repeat questions/discussions that are already in the archive. See https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2015-July/041594.html. If a good search feature is enabled, all the past discussions will become accessible.

 

Regards,

Palaniappan

 

 

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces@list.indology.info> on behalf of Indology List <indology@list.indology.info>
Reply-To: "George L. HART" <glhart@berkeley.edu>
Date: Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 1:12 PM
To: Indology List <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit

 

V.S. Rajam’s book is an essential one for students of classical Tamil, covering syntax, meter, morphology, etc. What I meant is that to my knowledge no one has made a substantial study of every use of eṉ in Sangam literature. Such a study might include uses of iti in early Sanskrit. For example, in modern Tamil we often find ēṉ eṉṟāl, “If you ask why,” which corresponds exactly to Sanskrit "kuta iti cet.” One wonders how old this usage is in both languages. George Hart



On Nov 12, 2022, at 6:07 PM, rajam <rajam@earthlink.net> wrote:

 

Dear List Members, 

 

George Hart said: 

 

/// I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be interesting to analyze the uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure anyone has done this. /// 

 

Just to kindle your memory … 

 

Please look into my book “A Reference Grammar of Classical Tamil Poetry, V.S. Rajam, American Philosophical Society, 1992” 

 

Thanks and regards,

V.S. Rajam 

 

 



On Nov 12, 2022, at 12:54 PM, George L. HART via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

 

I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be interesting to analyze the uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure anyone has done this. Of course, the use of this construction could be an areal phenomenon — it is not necessarily true that its presence in early Sanskrit is due to Dravidian, though I think it is highly likely, given its richness in Dravidian languages. George Hart



On Nov 12, 2022, at 1:08 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. (Herman) via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

 

I do not know if the question was about iti as an areal phenomenon. If so, see F.B.J. Kuiper, "The Genesis of a Linguistic Area", IIJ 1968, where, if I remember well, he compares Skt iti with Tamil eṉṟu.

Herman

 

Herman Tieken

Stationsweg 58

2515 BP Den Haag

The Netherlands

00 31 (0)70 2208127

website: hermantieken.com


Van: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces@list.indology.info> namens Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
Verzonden: zaterdag 12 november 2022 17:34
Aan: Olivelle, Joseph P <jpo@austin.utexas.edu>
CC: indology@list.indology.info <indology@list.indology.info>
Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit

 

If I remember correctly, the possibility of the "iti" constructions being an areal phenomena have been discussed  for many decades. The best person to provide information regarding this topic may be Hans Hock. I will see if I can locate any of these older publications.


Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India

 

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

 

 

On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 6:28 AM Olivelle, Joseph P via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

See the many explanations of ‘iti’ in Gary Tubb and Emery Boose’s book “Scholastic Sanskrit”.

Patrick




> On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:10 AM, Brendan S. Gillon, Prof. via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> I am wondering if any of you know of articles on the use of `iti' in 
> Sanskrit.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Brendan
> 
> -- 
> 
> Brendan S. Gillon                       email: brendan.gillon@mcgill.ca
> Department of Linguistics
> McGill University                       tel.:  001 514 398 4868
> 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield
> Montreal, Quebec                        fax.:  001 514 398 7088
> H3A 1A7  CANADA
> 
> webpage: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.mcgill.ca%2Fstaff%2Fgroup3%2Fbgillo%2Fweb%2F&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C40005a48e3d64c7af97308dac4b84054%7C31d7e2a5bdd8414e9e97bea998ebdfe1%7C0%7C0%7C638038592882519039%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=SHfWYYtZKaf%2FjbNNUQwJhnoaLp8V7WAqPSZGcXaH2xU%3D&amp;reserved=0
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