[INDOLOGY] grammar question

Sun Jul 28 10:29:41 UTC 2019

Dear list members, I would like to tag on to this discussion with a question about counting years in Tamil inscriptions. The examples quoted below have been taken from K.G. Krishnan, The Inscriptions of the Early Pāṇḍyas.
The first example (p. 23) is simple:

kō māṟañcaṭaiyaṟku yāṇṭu irupattu mūṉṟu avvāṇṭu
The year 23 (irupattu mūṉṟu) of King Māṟañcaṭaiyaṉ

In the following two examples the number of years is circumscribed with the help of the word etir "opposite":
In the first example we have to do with ordinal numbers: nāṉku + āvatu and paṉṉiraṇṭu + ām (p. 50):

varaguṇamahārācaṟku yāṇṭu nāṉkāvataṟku etir paṉṉiraṇṭām āṇṭu
In the 12th year opposite the fourth of Varaguṇa Mahārācaṉ

In the next example cardinal numbers are used (p. 86):

kōccaṭaiyamāṟaṟku yāṇṭu 2 itaṉ etir ēḻu ivvāṇṭu:
Year two 2, seven 7 opposite this of Kōccaṭaiyamāṟaṉ, this year.

My question is if this way of circumscribing the number of years has already been discussed elsewhere ( suppose it has), if etir "opposite" might be a translation of a case ending and why 16 is circumscribed as 4 + 16 and not for instance as 6 + 10, or what is the significance of the number 4?

Best wishes, Herman

Herman Tieken
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Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Verzonden: zondag 28 juli 2019 9:20
Aan: Nagaraj Paturi
CC: Indology
Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] grammar question

„Die älteste Weise, die sich durch Beispiele aus der Saṃhitā- und Brahmaṇa-Prosa belegen läßt, ist die, daß der den Abstand bezeichnende Einer im Instrumental oder Ablativ vorausgeschickt wird, dann na "nicht" und der Zehner oder Hunderter in dem durch den Satzzusammenhang verlangten Kasus folgt, z. B. dvābhyāṃ na śatam eig. "vermöge der zwei nicht hundert" d. h. "98". Der Einer hat natürlich das Genus des den gezählten Begriff bezeichnenden Substantivs. Jedes Wort einer solchen Gruppe behält vorklassisch den Akzent. [...]
Ablativ in TS. 7, 4, 7, 3 ekasyai [Dat. st. Gen.-Abl. fem.] na pañcāśat (ratrayaḥ) "49" und in den Gruppen, die mit ekān, Sandhiform von ekāt, altem [sonst durch ekasmāt verdrängtem] Ablativ sg. mask. ntr. von eka-, gebildet sind, z. B. ŚB. 9, 2, 3, 47 tad ekān na triṃśat "29". Vereinzelt tritt dieses ekāt auch statt des Femininums ein, wodurch c) vorbereitet wird: ŚB. 6, 2, 2, 37 ekān na triṃśat "29" als Summe zweier mit femininen Substantiven benannter Posten [...]
Klassisch ist daraus mit Beschränkung auf die Eins und zwar in der Form des mask.-neutralen Ablativs die kompositionelle Form ekānna-viṃśati- (-triṃśat- usw.) oder ekādna- (gemäß I 328 § 276c) mit Betonung der ersten Silbe erwachsen P. 6, 3, 76. Der akzentuierten Prosa ist diese Univerbierung noch fremd [...]“,
etc. etc.

Altindische Grammatik. Von Jacob Wackernagel.
III. Band: Nominalflexion - Zahlwort – Pronomen. Von Albert Debrunner und Jacob Wackernagel.
Göttingen 1930, pp. 387f. Cp. also p. 582.

Am So., 28. Juli 2019 um 06:50 Uhr schrieb Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
https://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_tools/ashtadhyayi/vyakhya/6/6.3.76.htm

एकेन हेतुना विंशतिर्न भवतीत्यर्थः। एकान्नविंशतिः, एकाद्नविंशतिरिति। अनुनासिकत्वे तदभावे च रूपम्। एकोनविंशतिरित्यर्थ इति। "पर्यवस्यती"ति शेषः। एकेन ऊनेति विग्रहः। "पूर्वसदृशे"ति समासः। सा चासौ विंशतिश्च।

On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 5:09 AM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Whitney in his grammar (section 477 b) gives this exact example "A case-form of a smaller number, genarally eka one is connect by na not with a larger number from which it is to be deducted: thus, . . . .;most often ekān (i.e. ekāt, irregular ablative for ekasmāt) na viṁśatiḥ 19· . . ."

Harry Spier .

On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 7:27 PM Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear Dr. Paturi,

On ekānnaviṁśati = nineteen, see Pāṇini, Aṣṭādhyāyī, 6.3.76 (ekādiś caikasya cāduk).

Dear Dr. Patte,

I don't understand your passage, but rather doubt that it can be explained in the light of how the word ekānnaviṁśati is formed. Since the proper ablative of eka is ekasmāt, I don't think ekānnaviṁśati is to be analyzed in the way you imagine. (Alas I don't understand the commentaries on Aṣṭ. 6.3.76 well enough to be able to to tell how the word ekānnaviṁśati is traditionally explained.)

Best wishes,

Arlo Griffiths

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of François Patte via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:08 PM
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] grammar question

Le 27/07/2019 à 20:06, Nagaraj Paturi a écrit :
> Are you talking about ekōnavimśati = ēka + ūna +  vimśati ? = 19

No! ekād (ablative) na viṃśati

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François Patte
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Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
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Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre for Indic Knowledge Systems.
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

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