[INDOLOGY] sha and kha

Sat Sep 15 02:34:57 UTC 2018

Dear Dominik and all,

That's a useful distinction, with the added provision that the reason may change back and forth over time. I would have to go dig quite a bit to prove this, but my impression is (and others on this list are better placed to comment) that (some) early Newar Buddhist manuscripts but also those edited or composed recently by scrupulous Newar Buddhist scholars keep the distinction, even where pronunciation contemporary with the manuscript shows a clear shift. Certainly some modern Newar Vajrācāryas are aware that the Tibetan pronunciation of various mantras, as broadcast on loudspeakers in public spaces, is ‘wrong’, and the mispronunciation includes ṣ/kh shift terms like bhaiṣajya or ṣaḍakṣarī . This will be true even where, at other moments, pronunciation in their speech community shows elements of this same shift.

Hope that's a help.

Be well,

—WBTD.

> On 15 Sep, 2018, at 02:15, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> I'm sorry to be lazy, but is it possible to summarize the scholarship on ṣ/kh alternation as stating that it is 
> due in some cases to orthographic practice, 
> in other cases to spoken dialectical variation, and 
> in yet other cases to the orthographic recording of a spoken form? 
> In other words, when we see ṣ/kh in manuscripts, it's not automatically possible to tell whether we are seeing a valid recording of phonetic /ṣ/ or /kh/, or just a scribe writing kh when he sees ṣ in his exemplar or hears /ṣ/ in the dictation he's following?  So a critical editor should not automatically transcribe vikhaya or dokha as viṣaya and doṣa?
> 
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>,
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity,
> Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>,
> University of Alberta, Canada.
> South Asia at the U of A:  sas.ualberta.ca <http://sas.ualberta.ca/>
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 at 02:36, Jonathan Silk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> My sincere thanks to all who helped me understand this phenomenon!
> Jonathan
> 
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 4:18 AM, Seishi Karashima via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Dear Jonathan and colleagues,
> 
> Concerning kh / ṣ, cf. Weber, Über ein zum Weissen Yajus gehöriges phonetisches Compendium, das Pratijnâsûtra 1872: 84~85; Pischel § 265; Oertel, The Syntax of Cases in the Narrative and Descriptive Prose of the Brāhmaṇas, I. The Disjunct Use of Cases 1926: 56, § 29, ex. 6; AiGr I, p. 136-137, Nachträge p. 75; Vedic Variants II § 295; Renou, Gr, p. 4; Allen, Phonetics in Ancient India 1953: 56; Bloch/Master p. 73; Handurukande 1967: xiii; Kuiper, Gopālakelicandrikā 1987: 152~154 ( “the old North indian tradition” “a common interchange arising from Rājasthānī speech”); BHSD, p. 532, śeṣita (für śekhita); Masato Kobayashi, Historical Phonology of Old Indo-Aryan Consonants, 2004: 60 (“/s./ and /kh/ are often confused in some manuscripts and in later Indo-Aryan languages”); cf. also A Dictinaray of Old Marathi (abbr. DOM) dokha  < Skt. doṣa; viṣaya: DOM:/cf. vikhaya; a-namīkha  : DOM: “without blinking, vigilantly" < animiṣa; agha-markhaṇa /Skt. aghamarṣṇa etc. etc.
> 
> Seishi Karashima
> 
> 
> 2018-09-12 23:35 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
> Dear Jonathan,
> 
>      As Professor Girish Jha described, the change of ṣa to kha, except in conjuncts with ṭa-varga [ष: खष्टुमृते], is prescribed by the Prātiśākhya of the Śukla-Yajurveda and seen in the recitation of this Veda till today.  This also results in variation like pāṣaṇḍa/pākhaṇḍa.  Certainly, a wide-spread dialectal feature.
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus
> Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan
> [Residence: Campbell, California]
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 6:41 AM Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> There is frequent reference to the same phenomenon in some of Michael Witzel's "Materials on Vedic Śākhās", his series of articles published in various journals in the 1970s-1990s.
> 
> Arlo Griffiths
> 
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Jonathan Silk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 12:14 PM
> To: jhakgirish
> Cc: bvparishat at googlegroups.com <mailto:bvparishat at googlegroups.com>; Indology
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} sha and kha
>  
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> I am very interested in this equivalence, because what I remember having learned (I am not sure now whether this is the right word) that kha/ṣa "confusion" was a characteristic of Nepalese manuscripts, and that they were to be considered the same (I perhaps learned this from John Brough's lengthy review of Edgerton's Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Grammar and Dictionary, if memory serves...). But now it appears that this is not a "quirk" of Nepalese scribes but an instance of a wider phonologically motivated fusion?
> 
> Curious, Jonathan Silk
> 
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 6:51 AM, jhakgirish via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Dear colleagues
> Sorry for the mistake due to haste.Both snushaa and snokhaa have the meaning
> daughter-in-law and not grand daughter.
> Girish K.Jha
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: jhakgirish <jhakgirish at gmail.com <mailto:jhakgirish at gmail.com>>
> Date: 9/12/18 10:16 AM (GMT+05:30)
> To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>, bvparishat at googlegroups.com <mailto:bvparishat at googlegroups.com>
> Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} sha and kha
> 
> Dear colleaguesThere is a sutra in Shukla yajuh praatishaakhya i.e." shah khah tumrite" It means retroflex sha is pronounced as kha except combined with the group t(tavarga).Hence in Shuklayajurveda it is pronouncedas kha. But in kashta,vishnu,etc. It is pronounced as sha.Almost all over India it is pronounced as kha in Shuklayajusha. I would like to mention that in our Mithila(North Bihar) retroflex sha is not only pronounced in Shuklayajusha but in ClassicalSanskrit too pronounced as kha and also inMaithili Language( a modern Indo-Aryan).It would not be out of the context what I would say.It has been coming from the Indo-European period.There is a Russian parallel "snokhaa" which resembles Sanskrit "snushaa" but both have the same meaning i.e.grand daughter.RegardsGirish K.JhaRetd. Univ.ProfessorDept of SanskritPatna UniversityPatna:India 800005(Residence-Kolkata:India)Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com <mailto:v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>> Date: 9/12/18 7:06 AM  (GMT+05:30) To: BHARATIYA VIDVAT <bvparishat at googlegroups.com <mailto:bvparishat at googlegroups.com>> Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: पुरुषसूक्तम् -- शुक्ल यजुर्वेद On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 6:23 AM Shashi Joshi <shashikgp at gmail.com <mailto:shashikgp at gmail.com>> wrote:Interestingly this same ष ---> ख pronunciation transition is seen in Rajasthan. My grandfather would say words likeखडयन्त्र (षड्यन्त्र )पुख्य (पुष्य नक्षत्र)सुखेण (सुषेण in Hanuman Chalisa)लक्ष्मी becoming लकुमी is common in Kannada poetry.  ಏನು ಧನ್ಯಳೋ ಲಕುಮಿSubmitted by shreekant.mishrikoti on Tue, 06/01/2009 - 03:19(ರಾಗ ತೋಡಿ ಅಟತಾಳ)ಏನು ಧನ್ಯಳೋ ಲಕುಮಿಎಂಥ ಮಾನ್ಯಳೋಸಾನುರಾಗದಿಂದ ಹರಿಯತಾನೆ ಸೇವೆ ಮಾಡುತಿಹಳೋ ||ಪ|-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयवि��
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> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> 
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> -- 
> J. Silk
> Leiden University
> Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
> Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
> 2311 BZ Leiden
> The Netherlands
> 
> copies of my publications may be found at
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> -- 
> J. Silk
> Leiden University
> Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
> Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
> 2311 BZ Leiden
> The Netherlands
> 
> copies of my publications may be found at
> https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk <https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk>
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