[INDOLOGY] Kashmir Shaiva and 'vernacular' - a question

[Harry Spier]

1) The KSTS edition of the tantrasara is downloadable from the muktabodha
digital library  www.muktabodha.org both as a digital e-text and as a pdf
of the original ksts edition.  The pdf version is probably more reliable
than the e-text to look at the Apabhramsa verses since in the e-text some
additional spaces have been put in between the "chaotic umble of letters"
mentioned in Andrew Ollett's message.

2) In an unpublished translation of the tantrasAra by B.N. Pandit that I
saw about 20 years ago he ascribed the Apabhramsa passages to a female guru
of a Kashmir Saivite lineage.  He didn't say if this was a traditional view
or his opinion.  I don't remember any other details about what he said.

Harry Spier

On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 3:43 PM Tieken, H.J.H. <
H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl> wrote:

> Now I become interested. Apabhraṃśa started its career as a literary
> language as the language of popular songs sung on the streets (see the
> dvipadīkhaṇḍa in Harṣa's Ratnāvalī, *JESHO, *51 (2008), pp. 355-69). If
> we had been able to ask the writers of the early literary texts in what we
> tend to call vernaculars, in what language they were writing they would
> probably have answered "Apabhraṃśa". In this case, too, we have two
> answers, namely "vernacular" (Bannerjee) and "Apabhraṃśa" (Spier's
> informant). Is it possible to see a few examples of the passages concerned?
> Herman
>
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> 2515 BP Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> website: hermantieken.com
> ------------------------------
> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Harry Spier
> via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
> *Verzonden:* zaterdag 1 december 2018 21:09
> *Aan:* Artur Karp
> *CC:* Indology
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Kashmir Shaiva and 'vernacular' - a question
>
> I was  told the verses in the tantrasAra are in Apabhramsa.
>
> Harry Spier
>
> On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 1:26 PM Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> Dear Tatiana, and dear Harry,
>>
>> Strange, somehow. Your exchange contains no information re the language
>> of the vernacular verses ending each chapter of the "Kaashmira (with
>> short 'i'! - TO) Shaiva works". Should it remain a closely guarded secret?
>>
>> Greetings from frosty Warszawa,
>>
>> Artur Karp (ret.)
>> Chair of South Asian Studies
>> University of Warsaw
>> Poland
>>
>>
>>
>> sob., 1 gru 2018 o 14:52 Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> napisał(a):
>>
>>> Dear Tatiana,
>>>
>>> I referenced the KSTS edition of the tantrasAra because this is
>>> available online in the Muktabodha digital library as both a digital e-text
>>> and a pdf of the original.   I vaguely recall looking at a tantrasAra
>>> manuscript about 20 years ago that had  prakrit verses  that were different
>>> from those in the KSTS edition.  But that was 20 years ago so I could be
>>> mistaken.
>>>
>>> Harry Spier
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 2:22 AM tatiana.oranskaia <
>>> tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Harry,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you ever so much for the tip!
>>>>
>>>> Are they to be found only in the KSTS edition?
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> Tatiana
>>>> Zitat von Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> > Dear Tatiana,
>>>> >
>>>> > You can see this phenomenon in the KSTS edition of the tantrasAra .
>>>> >
>>>> > Harry Spier
>>>> >
>>>> > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 1:56 PM tatiana.oranskaia via INDOLOGY <
>>>> > indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Dear colleagues,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I would be grateful for an answer to my question related to the
>>>> following
>>>> >> passage in the Introduction by the editor, S.R. Banerjee, to
>>>> >> 'PraakRtadhyaaya':
>>>> >> "Kaashmira (with short 'i'! - TO) Shaiva works are  almost invariably
>>>> >> accompanied
>>>> >> with some verses in the vernacular in the end of each chapter."
>>>> (p.34)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What kind of a 'vernacular'/Prakrit is it?
>>>> >> Does it show some specific local features?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> With best wishes,
>>>> >> Tatiana Oranskaia
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Prof. Dr. Tatiana Oranskaia
>>>> >> Abteilung für Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets
>>>> >> Asien-Afrika-Institut
>>>> >> Universität Hamburg
>>>> >> Alsterterrasse 1, 1. OG re.
>>>> >> 20354 Hamburg
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Tel.: 040 428 38 3385 (GZ)
>>>> >> Fax: 040 42838 6944
>>>> >> tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Prof. Dr. Tatiana Oranskaia
>>>> Abteilung für Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets
>>>> Asien-Afrika-Institut
>>>> Universität Hamburg
>>>> Alsterterrasse 1, 1. OG re.
>>>> 20354 Hamburg
>>>>
>>>> Tel.: 040 428 38 3385 (GZ)
>>>> Fax: 040 42838 6944
>>>> tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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