[INDOLOGY] Kashmir Shaiva and 'vernacular' - a question

Sat Dec 1 22:36:43 UTC 2018

Dear colleagues,

Many thanks for your comments!
The question has produced a string.
The question itself was produced by the book by Anton Kogan on aspects of
comparative-historical research of Kashmiri. Discussing in the 1st chapter
written sources which might contain some elements of Kashmiri in its  
earlier stage,
he analyses, among other things, words in the verses of the  
Mahaanayaprakaasha (MNP)
written in what the author of MNP labels as 'deshabhaaSaa'. Not  
surprisingly, Anton comes to the
conclusion that it is an artificial Apabhraṃśa based language. Unlike  
Grierson,
he doesn't think that it could be the ancestor of Kashmiri. However,  
he follows Grierson
in that he singles out in this lexis some traits characteristic of  
Kashmiri, or Dardic in general.

Thanks to the tip from Harry Spier I could go - very superficially -  
through the non-Sanskrit verses
of the Tantrasaara on the Internet Archive. It is a prakritised  
Apabhraṃśa with, obviously, no Kashmiri
specific traits, which is fully in accord with the opinion of Bhayani  
(see Andrew Ollett's mail).
Eric Gurevitch kindly sent me a PDF copy of Bhayani's article this  
morning. I think he doesn't mind
if I share it with anybody interested. Please, let me know if you  
would like to receive a copy.

Best wishes,
Tatiana

Nachricht von "Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY" <indology at list.indology.info>
      Datum: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 20:43:24 +0000
        Von: "Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY" <indology at list.indology.info>
Antwort an: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
    Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Kashmir Shaiva and 'vernacular' - a question
         An: Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com>, Artur Karp  
<karp at uw.edu.pl>
         Cc: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>

Now I become interested. Apabhraṃśa started its career as a literary language
as the language of popular songs sung on the streets (see the dvipadīkhaṇḍa
in Harṣa's Ratnāvalī, JESHO, 51 (2008), pp. 355-69).
If we had been able to ask the writers of the early literary texts
in what we tend to call vernaculars, in what language they were writing
they would probably have answered "Apabhraṃśa".
In this case, too, we have two answers, namely "vernacular" (Bannerjee)
and "Apabhraṃśa" (Spier's informant).
Is it possible to see a few examples of the passages concerned?
Herman

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>

Zitat von Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com>:

> I was  told the verses in the tantrasAra are in Apabhramsa.
>
> Harry Spier
>
> On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 1:26 PM Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> Dear Tatiana, and dear Harry,
>>
>> Strange, somehow. Your exchange contains no information re the language of
>> the vernacular verses ending each chapter of the "Kaashmira (with short
>> 'i'! - TO) Shaiva works". Should it remain a closely guarded secret?
>>
>> Greetings from frosty Warszawa,
>>
>> Artur Karp (ret.)
>> Chair of South Asian Studies
>> University of Warsaw
>> Poland
>>
>>
>>
>> sob., 1 gru 2018 o 14:52 Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> napisał(a):
>>
>>> Dear Tatiana,
>>>
>>> I referenced the KSTS edition of the tantrasAra because this is available
>>> online in the Muktabodha digital library as both a digital e-text and a pdf
>>> of the original.   I vaguely recall looking at a tantrasAra manuscript
>>> about 20 years ago that had  prakrit verses  that were different from those
>>> in the KSTS edition.  But that was 20 years ago so I could be mistaken.
>>>
>>> Harry Spier
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 2:22 AM tatiana.oranskaia <
>>> tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Harry,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you ever so much for the tip!
>>>>
>>>> Are they to be found only in the KSTS edition?
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> Tatiana
>>>> Zitat von Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> > Dear Tatiana,
>>>> >
>>>> > You can see this phenomenon in the KSTS edition of the tantrasAra .
>>>> >
>>>> > Harry Spier
>>>> >
>>>> > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 1:56 PM tatiana.oranskaia via INDOLOGY <
>>>> > indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Dear colleagues,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I would be grateful for an answer to my question related to the
>>>> following
>>>> >> passage in the Introduction by the editor, S.R. Banerjee, to
>>>> >> 'PraakRtadhyaaya':
>>>> >> "Kaashmira (with short 'i'! - TO) Shaiva works are  almost invariably
>>>> >> accompanied
>>>> >> with some verses in the vernacular in the end of each chapter." (p.34)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What kind of a 'vernacular'/Prakrit is it?
>>>> >> Does it show some specific local features?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> With best wishes,
>>>> >> Tatiana Oranskaia
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Prof. Dr. Tatiana Oranskaia
>>>> >> Abteilung für Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets
>>>> >> Asien-Afrika-Institut
>>>> >> Universität Hamburg
>>>> >> Alsterterrasse 1, 1. OG re.
>>>> >> 20354 Hamburg
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Tel.: 040 428 38 3385 (GZ)
>>>> >> Fax: 040 42838 6944
>>>> >> tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Prof. Dr. Tatiana Oranskaia
>>>> Abteilung für Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets
>>>> Asien-Afrika-Institut
>>>> Universität Hamburg
>>>> Alsterterrasse 1, 1. OG re.
>>>> 20354 Hamburg
>>>>
>>>> Tel.: 040 428 38 3385 (GZ)
>>>> Fax: 040 42838 6944
>>>> tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
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>>>
>>

-- 
Prof. Dr. Tatiana Oranskaia
Abteilung für Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets
Asien-Afrika-Institut
Universität Hamburg
Alsterterrasse 1, 1. OG re.
20354 Hamburg

Tel.: 040 428 38 3385 (GZ)
Fax: 040 42838 6944
tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de