[INDOLOGY] Question

Fri Oct 3 18:33:15 UTC 2025

Dear Patrick, and everyone,

I popped the verse into Dharmamitra, which is an extraordinary tool, and it
gave me some references (in addition to translations etc.), which might be
really helpful here:

**

The secondary literature consistently highlights the *goldsmith simile* as
a classic illustration of the need for *balanced effort* and *proper timing*
in Buddhist practice, particularly meditation.

*Kumārajīva, Yamabe, and Sueki (2009): The Sutra on the Concentration of
Sitting Meditation* (page 106) directly references this passage from
*Saundarananda* (SauN 16.64-65). They explain that if the goldsmith acts
untimely—blowing too much, stopping too early, sprinkling water at the
wrong moment, or neglecting the gold—the refining process fails. This
underscores the precise nature of the metaphor, where each action (blowing,
cooling, observing) must be executed at the opportune moment to prevent
ruin or incompleteness.

*José Van Den Broeck (1977): La Saveur De L'Immortel (A-p'i-t'an Kan Lu Wei
Lun) / The Taste Of The Deathless* (page 133) provides a similar
interpretation from the *Abhidharma-amṛta-rasa-śāstra*. It explicitly links
the goldsmith's actions to aspects of meditative practice: constant blowing
on the fire would scorch the gold (likened to excessive exertion), constant
sprinkling with water would cool it (likened to excessive
concentration/dhyāna), and constant abandonment would prevent its proper
maturation (likened to equanimity). This text clearly articulates how the
simile serves as a guide for balancing *diligence (vīrya)*, *concentration
(samādhi/dhyāna)*, and *equanimity (upekṣā)* in meditation, preventing the
pitfalls of sloth, agitation, or lack of refinement.

*Bhikkhu Bodhi (2012): The Numerical Discourses of the Buddha* (page 331)
offers a translation of a Pali parallel (Anguttara Nikaya) that details the
same metaphor. It warns that exclusive focus on one aspect—blowing
(heating), sprinkling water (cooling), or just looking on (equanimity)—will
lead to failure: burning, cooling down, or failing to reach the right
consistency. This reinforces the idea that an *integrated and responsive
approach* is essential.
**
Really looking forward to your completed translation of this beautiful
text, as always!

Cheers,
M

*Matthew D. Milligan, PhD*
Visiting Scholar
Asian Languages and Cultures
The University of Michigan
Associate Editor, Journal of Economics, Management and Religion
<https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscinet/jemar>
Author: "Liberty and the Lotus" Newsletter
<https://libertyandlotus.substack.com/>
Academic Work: https://matthewdmilligan.academia.edu/

“Be a thinker, not a stinker.” - Apollo Creed

On Fri, Oct 3, 2025 at 2:08 PM Allen, Michael S. (msa2b) via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
> I’m no expert in either metallurgy or alchemy, but couldn’t the verse be
> referring to ordinary metalworking? One heats a metal to make it workable (*dhaman
> *might suggest the use of bellows or a blowpipe), and sometimes one
> submerges it in liquid to cool the metal. Both processes—heating and
> cooling—require proper timing.
>
>
> In English the process of rapidly submerging the workpiece in liquid is
> known as quenching. It seems to me the idea of quenching a workpiece,
> causing it to be “quenched,” “extinguished,” or “calmed” of its fiery
> properties, falls comfortably within the lexical range of *saṃśam *and
> makes good sense in context.
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Michael
>
>
> Michael S. Allen
>
> Associate Professor
>
> Department of Religious Studies
>
> University of Virginia
>
>
> *From: *INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Paul
> Thomas via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Date: *Friday, October 3, 2025 at 12:39 PM
> *To: *Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu>
> *Cc: *Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] Question
>
> Hi Everyone,
> I happen to be going through the few verses on alchemy in the
> *Vimalaprabhā*, so I have been researching the topic.  *jāraṇam* in an
> alchemical context (and in a general metallurgic context?) is usually
> understood to mean "digestion."   It is the process by which processed
> quicksilver incorporates other substances such as mica or metals into
> itself, which results in "activated" quicksilver that is able to transmute
> other metals into gold, or the mortal human body into a divine one.
> *māraṇam* is linked to this process of digestion.  With *jāraṇam *and the
> other concomitant processes at the culmination of the alchemical work, the
> quicksilver is also "killed" (*mṛtam*), and thus fully activated.  On the
> other hand, I don't know what *saṃśamanam* would refer to . . .
> Paul
>
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2025 at 9:01 PM Lyne Bansat-Boudon via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear Matthew,
>
> Of course, this is probably a right understanding of the term in the
> context of Alchemy, and it is undoubtely a technical term, yet it works as
> a metaphor, by transfer from one realm to another.
> Semantic derivation, particularly in Sanskrit, owes much to the
> metaphorical use of words.
> It could be useful to note other occurrences of the term and the context
> in which it appears, or to find glosses of the term (*saṃśamayet* being
> glossed by *jārayet*, for instance). However, the research undoubtedly
> exceeds the scope of the question!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lyne
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *De :* Matthew Kapstein <mattkapstein at proton.me>
> *Envoyé :* vendredi 3 octobre 2025 16:54
> *À :* Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu>
> *Cc :* Patrick Olivelle <jpo at austin.utexas.edu>; Indology List <
> indology at list.indology.info>
> *Objet :* RE: [INDOLOGY] Question
>
> Dear Lyne,
>
> I placed "killing" in quotation marks as it is the term used by Roy. And I
> believe that this has a special significance with reference to metals in
> the alchemical context, and should not be confused with life, aging and
> death among mortal beings.
>
> best regards,
> Matthew
>
> Matthew T. Kapstein
> Professor emeritus
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, PSL Research University, Paris
>
> Associate
> The University of Chicago Divinity School
>
> Member, American Academy of Arts and Sciences
>
> https://ephe.academia.edu/MatthewKapstein
>
> https://vajrabookshop.com/product/the-life-and-work-of-auleshi/
>
>
> https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501716218/tibetan-manuscripts-and-early-printed-books-volume-i/#bookTabs=1
>
>
> https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501771255/tibetan-manuscripts-and-early-printed-books-volume-ii/#bookTabs=1
>
> https://brill.com/edcollbook/title/60949
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
>
> On Friday, October 3rd, 2025 at 4:48 PM, Lyne Bansat-Boudon <
> Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu> wrote:
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> It seems to me that taking root *jr̥̄ *to mean ‘to kill’ is a bit radical
> (although it may have this meaning contextually).
>
> It's more in the semantic field of old age, wear and tear, decay. See the
> origin myth of Indian theatre (1st chapter of the *Nāṭyaśāstra*), in
> which the well-named demons (the Vighnas) who obstruct (!) the archetypal
> representation are "torn to pieces" (*jarjarībhūta*) by Indra, thanks
> to the pole of his standard, henceforth called *‘jarjara’,* and not all
> of them are killed.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> LBB
>
> Lyne Bansat-Boudon
>
> Directeur d'études pour les Religions de l'Inde
>
> Ecole pratique des hautes études, section des sciences religieuses
>
> Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France
> ------------------------------
> *De :* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> de la part de
> Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Envoyé :* vendredi 3 octobre 2025 00:12
> *À :* Patrick Olivelle <jpo at austin.utexas.edu>
> *Cc :* Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Objet :* Re: [INDOLOGY] Question
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
> You may wish to look at Roy’s History of Hindu Chemistry on the topic of «
> killing » gold and other metals, in rasaśāstra.  The verb used is jārayed,
> but śam caus. can also mean to kill.
>
> Maybe there is more recent work on this as well.
>
> best,
> Matthew
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2025 at 19:20, Patrick Olivelle via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info
> <On+Thu,+Oct+2,+2025+at+19:20,+Patrick+Olivelle+via+INDOLOGY+%3C%3Ca+href=>>
> wrote:
>
> Sorry, Johnston translates: “makes it too soft.”
>
> Patrick
>
>
> Dear All:
>
> In Aśvaghoṣa’s Saundarananda, we have the following verse:
>
> dahet suvarṇaṁ hi dhamann akāle jale kṣipan saṁśamayed akāle /
> na cāpi samyak paripākam enaṁ nayed akāle samupekṣamāṇaḥ // 16.66 //
>
> The problem verb is saṃśamayet. Covill translates: "make it cool down”;
> and Johnston: “bring it to maturity.” My feeling is that the term has a
> technical meaning within the metallurgic tradition. Someone suggested “make
> it brittle”, which is tempting, but I do not know that the Sanskrit term
> has this meaning. Any help from those of you better versed in ancient
> Indian metallurgy would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Patrick Olivelle
>
>
>
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