[INDOLOGY] Question

Fri Oct 3 18:07:24 UTC 2025

Dear Colleagues,

I’m no expert in either metallurgy or alchemy, but couldn’t the verse be referring to ordinary metalworking? One heats a metal to make it workable (dhaman might suggest the use of bellows or a blowpipe), and sometimes one submerges it in liquid to cool the metal. Both processes—heating and cooling—require proper timing.

In English the process of rapidly submerging the workpiece in liquid is known as quenching. It seems to me the idea of quenching a workpiece, causing it to be “quenched,” “extinguished,” or “calmed” of its fiery properties, falls comfortably within the lexical range of saṃśam and makes good sense in context.

Best wishes,

Michael

Michael S. Allen

Associate Professor

Department of Religious Studies

University of Virginia

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Paul Thomas via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Date: Friday, October 3, 2025 at 12:39 PM
To: Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu>
Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question

Hi Everyone,
I happen to be going through the few verses on alchemy in the Vimalaprabhā, so I have been researching the topic.  jāraṇam in an alchemical context (and in a general metallurgic context?) is usually understood to mean "digestion."   It is the process by which processed quicksilver incorporates other substances such as mica or metals into itself, which results in "activated" quicksilver that is able to transmute other metals into gold, or the mortal human body into a divine one.  māraṇam is linked to this process of digestion.  With jāraṇam and the other concomitant processes at the culmination of the alchemical work, the quicksilver is also "killed" (mṛtam), and thus fully activated.  On the other hand, I don't know what saṃśamanam would refer to . . .
Paul

On Fri, Oct 3, 2025 at 9:01 PM Lyne Bansat-Boudon via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear Matthew,

Of course, this is probably a right understanding of the term in the context of Alchemy, and it is undoubtely a technical term, yet it works as a metaphor, by transfer from one realm to another.
Semantic derivation, particularly in Sanskrit, owes much to the metaphorical use of words.
It could be useful to note other occurrences of the term and the context in which it appears, or to find glosses of the term (saṃśamayet being glossed by jārayet, for instance). However, the research undoubtedly exceeds the scope of the question!

Best regards,

Lyne

________________________________
De : Matthew Kapstein <mattkapstein at proton.me<mailto:mattkapstein at proton.me>>
Envoyé : vendredi 3 octobre 2025 16:54
À : Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu<mailto:Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu>>
Cc : Patrick Olivelle <jpo at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:jpo at austin.utexas.edu>>; Indology List <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Objet : RE: [INDOLOGY] Question

Dear Lyne,

I placed "killing" in quotation marks as it is the term used by Roy. And I believe that this has a special significance with reference to metals in the alchemical context, and should not be confused with life, aging and death among mortal beings.

best regards,
Matthew

Matthew T. Kapstein
Professor emeritus
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, PSL Research University, Paris

Associate
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Member, American Academy of Arts and Sciences

https://ephe.academia.edu/MatthewKapstein

https://vajrabookshop.com/product/the-life-and-work-of-auleshi/

https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501716218/tibetan-manuscripts-and-early-printed-books-volume-i/#bookTabs=1

https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501771255/tibetan-manuscripts-and-early-printed-books-volume-ii/#bookTabs=1

https://brill.com/edcollbook/title/60949

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On Friday, October 3rd, 2025 at 4:48 PM, Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu<mailto:Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu>> wrote:
Dear colleagues,

It seems to me that taking root jr̥̄ to mean ‘to kill’ is a bit radical (although it may have this meaning contextually).

It's more in the semantic field of old age, wear and tear, decay. See the origin myth of Indian theatre (1st chapter of the Nāṭyaśāstra), in which the well-named demons (the Vighnas) who obstruct (!) the archetypal representation are "torn to pieces" (jarjarībhūta) by Indra, thanks to the pole of his standard, henceforth called ‘jarjara’, and not all of them are killed.

Best wishes,

LBB

Lyne Bansat-Boudon

Directeur d'études pour les Religions de l'Inde

Ecole pratique des hautes études, section des sciences religieuses

Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France

________________________________
De : INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> de la part de Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Envoyé : vendredi 3 octobre 2025 00:12
À : Patrick Olivelle <jpo at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:jpo at austin.utexas.edu>>
Cc : Indology List <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Objet : Re: [INDOLOGY] Question

Hi Patrick,

You may wish to look at Roy’s History of Hindu Chemistry on the topic of « killing » gold and other metals, in rasaśāstra.  The verb used is jārayed, but śam caus. can also mean to kill.

Maybe there is more recent work on this as well.

best,
Matthew

On Thu, Oct 2, 2025 at 19:20, Patrick Olivelle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:On+Thu,+Oct+2,+2025+at+19:20,+Patrick+Olivelle+via+INDOLOGY+%3C%3Ca+href=>> wrote:
Sorry, Johnston translates: “makes it too soft.”

Patrick

Dear All:

In Aśvaghoṣa’s Saundarananda, we have the following verse:

dahet suvarṇaṁ hi dhamann akāle jale kṣipan saṁśamayed akāle /
na cāpi samyak paripākam enaṁ nayed akāle samupekṣamāṇaḥ // 16.66 //

The problem verb is saṃśamayet. Covill translates: "make it cool down”; and Johnston: “bring it to maturity.” My feeling is that the term has a technical meaning within the metallurgic tradition. Someone suggested “make it brittle”, which is tempting, but I do not know that the Sanskrit term has this meaning. Any help from those of you better versed in ancient Indian metallurgy would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Patrick Olivelle

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