Dear Patrick, and everyone,

I popped the verse into Dharmamitra, which is an extraordinary tool, and it gave me some references (in addition to translations etc.), which might be really helpful here:

**

The secondary literature consistently highlights the goldsmith simile as a classic illustration of the need for balanced effort and proper timing in Buddhist practice, particularly meditation.

Kumārajīva, Yamabe, and Sueki (2009): The Sutra on the Concentration of Sitting Meditation (page 106) directly references this passage from Saundarananda (SauN 16.64-65). They explain that if the goldsmith acts untimely—blowing too much, stopping too early, sprinkling water at the wrong moment, or neglecting the gold—the refining process fails. This underscores the precise nature of the metaphor, where each action (blowing, cooling, observing) must be executed at the opportune moment to prevent ruin or incompleteness.

José Van Den Broeck (1977): La Saveur De L'Immortel (A-p'i-t'an Kan Lu Wei Lun) / The Taste Of The Deathless (page 133) provides a similar interpretation from the Abhidharma-amṛta-rasa-śāstra. It explicitly links the goldsmith's actions to aspects of meditative practice: constant blowing on the fire would scorch the gold (likened to excessive exertion), constant sprinkling with water would cool it (likened to excessive concentration/dhyāna), and constant abandonment would prevent its proper maturation (likened to equanimity). This text clearly articulates how the simile serves as a guide for balancing diligence (vīrya), concentration (samādhi/dhyāna), and equanimity (upekṣā) in meditation, preventing the pitfalls of sloth, agitation, or lack of refinement.

Bhikkhu Bodhi (2012): The Numerical Discourses of the Buddha (page 331) offers a translation of a Pali parallel (Anguttara Nikaya) that details the same metaphor. It warns that exclusive focus on one aspect—blowing (heating), sprinkling water (cooling), or just looking on (equanimity)—will lead to failure: burning, cooling down, or failing to reach the right consistency. This reinforces the idea that an integrated and responsive approach is essential.

**
Really looking forward to your completed translation of this beautiful text, as always!

Cheers,
M

Matthew D. Milligan, PhD
Visiting Scholar
Asian Languages and Cultures
The University of Michigan

“Be a thinker, not a stinker.” - Apollo Creed


On Fri, Oct 3, 2025 at 2:08 PM Allen, Michael S. (msa2b) via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Dear Colleagues,


I’m no expert in either metallurgy or alchemy, but couldn’t the verse be referring to ordinary metalworking? One heats a metal to make it workable (dhaman might suggest the use of bellows or a blowpipe), and sometimes one submerges it in liquid to cool the metal. Both processes—heating and cooling—require proper timing. 


In English the process of rapidly submerging the workpiece in liquid is known as quenching. It seems to me the idea of quenching a workpiece, causing it to be “quenched,” “extinguished,” or “calmed” of its fiery properties, falls comfortably within the lexical range of saṃśam and makes good sense in context. 


Best wishes,

Michael


Michael S. Allen

Associate Professor

Department of Religious Studies

University of Virginia



From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces@list.indology.info> on behalf of Paul Thomas via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
Date: Friday, October 3, 2025 at 12:39 PM
To: Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon@ephe.psl.eu>
Cc: Indology List <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question

Hi Everyone,
I happen to be going through the few verses on alchemy in the Vimalaprabhā, so I have been researching the topic.  jāraṇam in an alchemical context (and in a general metallurgic context?) is usually understood to mean "digestion."   It is the process by which processed quicksilver incorporates other substances such as mica or metals into itself, which results in "activated" quicksilver that is able to transmute other metals into gold, or the mortal human body into a divine one.  māraṇam is linked to this process of digestion.  With jāraṇam and the other concomitant processes at the culmination of the alchemical work, the quicksilver is also "killed" (mṛtam), and thus fully activated.  On the other hand, I don't know what saṃśamanam would refer to . . .   
Paul

On Fri, Oct 3, 2025 at 9:01 PM Lyne Bansat-Boudon via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Dear Matthew,

Of course, this is probably a right understanding of the term in the context of Alchemy, and it is undoubtely a technical term, yet it works as a metaphor, by transfer from one realm to another. 
Semantic derivation, particularly in Sanskrit, owes much to the metaphorical use of words.
It could be useful to note other occurrences of the term and the context in which it appears, or to find glosses of the term (saṃśamayet being glossed by jārayet, for instance). However, the research undoubtedly exceeds the scope of the question!

Best regards,

Lyne



De : Matthew Kapstein <mattkapstein@proton.me>
Envoyé : vendredi 3 octobre 2025 16:54
À : Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon@ephe.psl.eu>
Cc : Patrick Olivelle <jpo@austin.utexas.edu>; Indology List <indology@list.indology.info>
Objet : RE: [INDOLOGY] Question
 
Dear Lyne,

I placed "killing" in quotation marks as it is the term used by Roy. And I believe that this has a special significance with reference to metals in the alchemical context, and should not be confused with life, aging and death among mortal beings.

best regards,
Matthew

Matthew T. Kapstein
Professor emeritus
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, PSL Research University, Paris

Associate
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Member, American Academy of Arts and Sciences






Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

On Friday, October 3rd, 2025 at 4:48 PM, Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon@ephe.psl.eu> wrote:
Dear colleagues,

It seems to me that taking root jr̥̄ to mean ‘to kill’ is a bit radical (although it may have this meaning contextually). 

It's more in the semantic field of old age, wear and tear, decay. See the origin myth of Indian theatre (1st chapter of the Nāṭyaśāstra), in which the well-named demons (the Vighnas) who obstruct (!) the archetypal representation are "torn to pieces" (jarjarībhūta) by Indra, thanks to the pole of his standard, henceforth called ‘jarjara’, and not all of them are killed.

Best wishes,

LBB

Lyne Bansat-Boudon

Directeur d'études pour les Religions de l'Inde

Ecole pratique des hautes études, section des sciences religieuses

Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France


De : INDOLOGY <indology-bounces@list.indology.info> de la part de Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
Envoyé : vendredi 3 octobre 2025 00:12
À : Patrick Olivelle <jpo@austin.utexas.edu>
Cc : Indology List <indology@list.indology.info>
Objet : Re: [INDOLOGY] Question
 
Hi Patrick,

You may wish to look at Roy’s History of Hindu Chemistry on the topic of « killing » gold and other metals, in rasaśāstra.  The verb used is jārayed, but śam caus. can also mean to kill.

Maybe there is more recent work on this as well.

best,
Matthew 


On Thu, Oct 2, 2025 at 19:20, Patrick Olivelle via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Sorry, Johnston translates: “makes it too soft.”

Patrick


Dear All:

In Aśvaghoṣa’s Saundarananda, we have the following verse:

dahet suvarṇaṁ hi dhamann akāle jale kṣipan saṁśamayed akāle /
na cāpi samyak paripākam enaṁ nayed akāle samupekṣamāṇaḥ // 16.66 //

The problem verb is saṃśamayet. Covill translates: "make it cool down”; and Johnston: “bring it to maturity.” My feeling is that the term has a technical meaning within the metallurgic tradition. Someone suggested “make it brittle”, which is tempting, but I do not know that the Sanskrit term has this meaning. Any help from those of you better versed in ancient Indian metallurgy would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Patrick Olivelle



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