[INDOLOGY] Fwd: ळ in south Indian grantha sanskrit manuscripts

[Harry Spier]

Looking at this page of wikipedia  IAST uses l underbar for retroflex l.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Alphabet_of_Sanskrit_Transliteration#Comparison_with_ISO_15919
Harry Spier


On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 6:32 AM Satyanad Kichenassamy <
satyanad.kichenassamy at univ-reims.fr> wrote:

> Dear Jonas (if I may),
>
> IAST, as you say, is not satisfactory. ISO 15919 is better in this regard,
> as it distinguishes ḷ and l̥. IPA uses l̩
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllabic_consonant> for ऌ.
>
> Best regards,
>
>              Satyanad Kichenassamy
> Le 24/03/2023 à 09:13, Buchholz, Jonas a écrit :
>
> Dear Harry (if I may),
>
>
>
> Retroflex l (ळ) is quite common in South Indian Sanskrit manuscripts and
> prints. For example, in the Śaiva *Kāñcīmāhātmya* (a Sanskrit
> sthalamāhātmya on the city of Kanchipuram), I find the following examples
> just in the first two chapterts: śītal̤a, yugal̤a, uddhūl̤ita, kāl̤ikā,
> vakul̤a, nāl̤ikera, dal̤a, niṣkal̤a, sakal̤a, kramel̤aka, maul̤i…
>
>
>
> Sanskrit loanwords in South Indian languages also often reflect the
> pronunciation with retroflex l, e.g. the goddes Kālī is called காளி Kāḷi
> (with retroflex l) in Tamil.
>
>
>
> My impression is that there are certain words in which l is quite
> consistently replaced by retroflex l, while other words retain then
> “normal” l. However, I have not been able to find any consistent pattern
> when l becomes retroflex – any insights would be appreciated!
>
>
>
> Another question is how retroflex l should be represented in Roman
> transliteration. The most straightforward solution would be ḷ (in analogy
> with ṭ, ḍ, ṇ, ṣ), which is also the character used for retroflex l in Tamil
> transliteration, but in IAST transliteration ḷ is already reserved for
> vocalic l (ऌ). As you can see above, I have tentatively been using l̤ for
> retroflex l, but I would be happy to know if any other conventions have
> been used.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
> Jonas Buchholz
>
>
>
>
> *____                _____ *
>
> *Dr. Jonas Buchholz*
>
> Heidelberg Academy of Sciences and Humanities
>
> Project “Hindu Temple Legends in South India”
>
>
>
> Karl Jaspers Centre
>
> Voßstr. 2 | Building 4400 | Room 004
>
> 69115 Heidelberg, Germany
>
>
>
> P:  +49 (0)6221 54 4095
>
> E:  jonas.buchholz at hadw-bw.de
>
> W: https://www.hadw-bw.de/htl
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info>
> <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> *Im Auftrag von *Harry Spier via
> INDOLOGY
> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 24. März 2023 02:10
> *An:* indology at list.indology.info
> *Betreff:* [INDOLOGY] ळ in south Indian grantha sanskrit manuscripts
>
>
>
> Dear list members,
>
> I'm looking at the devanagari transcription of a south indian grantha
> manuscript.  most consonent l's are the classical sanskrit l i.e. ल but
> some words have the letter, ळ .
>
> Some examples are:
> प्रक्षाळ्य
>
> नाळिकेरोद्भवं
>
> पादौप्रक्षाळ्याचम्य
>
> मुकुळीकृतिय
>
> पिण्गळाय
>
> वामांघ्र्यब्जदळासह्रिताम्
>
> अण्गुळ्यग्रेण
>
> शुद्धविद्यातत्वव्याप्तसर्वमणळोपेतं
>
> I'm pretty sure this isn't from typist misprints because प्रक्षाळ्य occcurs many
> times always spelled with ळ
>
> Any explanations would be appreciated.  My understanding is that sometimes
> manuscripts were created by one scribe speaking the text and another scribe
> writing what he hears.  Is that a possible explanation for the occurance of
> this letter ळ .  I.e. local pronounciation creeping in.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Harry Spier
>
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> --
> **********************************************
> Satyanad KICHENASSAMY
> Professor of Mathematics
> Laboratoire de Mathématiques de Reims  (CNRS, UMR9008)
> Université de Reims Champagne-Ardenne
> F-51687 Reims Cedex 2
> France
> Web: https://www.normalesup.org/~kichenassamy
> **********************************************
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