[INDOLOGY] Fwd: ळ in south Indian grantha sanskrit manuscripts

[Satyanad Kichenassamy]

Dear Jonas (if I may),

IAST, as you say, is not satisfactory. ISO 15919 is better in this 
regard, as it distinguishes ḷ and l̥. IPA uses l̩ 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllabic_consonant> for ऌ.

Best regards,

              Satyanad Kichenassamy

Le 24/03/2023 à 09:13, Buchholz, Jonas a écrit :
>
> Dear Harry (if I may),
>
> Retroflex l (ळ)is quite common in South Indian Sanskrit manuscripts 
> and prints. For example, in the Śaiva /Kāñcīmāhātmya/ (a Sanskrit 
> sthalamāhātmya on the city of Kanchipuram), I find the following 
> examples just in the first two chapterts: śītal̤a, yugal̤a, 
> uddhūl̤ita, kāl̤ikā, vakul̤a, nāl̤ikera, dal̤a, niṣkal̤a, sakal̤a, 
> kramel̤aka, maul̤i…
>
> Sanskrit loanwords in South Indian languages also often reflect the 
> pronunciation with retroflex l, e.g. the goddes Kālī is called 
> காளிKāḷi (with retroflex l) in Tamil.
>
> My impression is that there are certain words in which l is quite 
> consistently replaced by retroflex l, while other words retain then 
> “normal” l. However, I have not been able to find any consistent 
> pattern when l becomes retroflex – any insights would be appreciated!
>
> Another question is how retroflex l should be represented in Roman 
> transliteration. The most straightforward solution would be ḷ (in 
> analogy with ṭ, ḍ, ṇ, ṣ), which is also the character used for 
> retroflex l in Tamil transliteration, but in IAST transliteration ḷ is 
> already reserved for vocalic l (ऌ). As you can see above, I have 
> tentatively been using l̤ for retroflex l, but I would be happy to 
> know if any other conventions have been used.
>
> Best wishes,
> Jonas Buchholz
>
> _______                _____ _
>
> *Dr. Jonas Buchholz*
>
> Heidelberg Academy of Sciences and Humanities
>
> Project “Hindu Temple Legends in South India”
>
> Karl Jaspers Centre
>
> Voßstr. 2 | Building 4400 | Room 004
>
> 69115 Heidelberg, Germany
>
> P: +49 (0)6221 54 4095
>
> E: jonas.buchholz at hadw-bw.de
>
> W: https://www.hadw-bw.de/htl <https://www.hadw-bw.de/htl>
>
> *Von:*INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> *Im Auftrag von 
> *Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 24. März 2023 02:10
> *An:* indology at list.indology.info
> *Betreff:* [INDOLOGY] ळ in south Indian grantha sanskrit manuscripts
>
> Dear list members,
>
> I'm looking at the devanagari transcription of a south indian grantha 
> manuscript. most consonent l's are the classical sanskrit l i.e. ल but 
> some words have the letter, ळ .
>
> Some examples are:
> प्रक्षाळ्य
>
> नाळिकेरोद्भवं
> पादौप्रक्षाळ्याचम्य
> मुकुळीकृतिय
> पिण्गळाय
> वामांघ्र्यब्जदळासह्रिताम्
> अण्गुळ्यग्रेण
> शुद्धविद्यातत्वव्याप्तसर्वमणळोपेतं
>
> I'm pretty sure this isn't from typist misprints because प्रक्षाळ्य 
> occcurs many times always spelled with ळ
>
> Any explanations would be appreciated.  My understanding is that 
> sometimes manuscripts were created by one scribe speaking the text and 
> another scribe writing what he hears.  Is that a possible explanation 
> for the occurance of this letter ळ .  I.e. local pronounciation 
> creeping in.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Harry Spier
>
>
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-- 
**********************************************
Satyanad KICHENASSAMY
Professor of Mathematics
Laboratoire de Mathématiques de Reims  (CNRS, UMR9008)
Université de Reims Champagne-Ardenne
F-51687 Reims Cedex 2
France
Web:https://www.normalesup.org/~kichenassamy
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