[INDOLOGY] Re: -t/-d

[Antonia Ruppel]

And apologies, I should have said explicitly that I am referring to the
Nom/Acc Ntr Sg forms! I'm actually unsure what we reconstruct for ablative
forms such as tasmāt (also an original -d based e.g. on Old Latin ablatives
in -od (long o)/-ād?) and don't have my books with me right now. But I'm
sure the other Indo-Europeanists on the List will be able to answer this.

All best,
     Antonia

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 04:11, Antonia Ruppel <rhododaktylos at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Mark,
>
> These forms originally ended in -d, as we can see from comparative
> evidence (forms such as 'id' in Latin, or Germanic forms ending in -t, such
> as 'it' or 'that') and also internal evidence (forms such as Sanskrit
> id-am).
>
> Word-final -d of course always appears as -t in Sanskrit when no other
> word follows. Some grammars prefer to give the underlying form (and then
> also often give you forms ending in the underlying -s that at the end of a
> word always appears as visarga in Sanskrit); others prefer to list the form
> as it would appear in Sanskrit.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> All the best,
>     Antonia
>
> On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 03:56, Nathan McGovern <nmcgover at fandm.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mark,
>>
>> I don't mean this to be a flippant question, but is it meaningful to ask
>> which form is "original"? In English, is the indefinite article
>> "originally" *a *but then becomes *an* in front of vowels, or is it
>> "originally" *an* but then becomes *a *in front of consonants?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Nathan
>>
>> *Having written this, it occurs to me that perhaps one could make a
>> comparative linguistic argument than *an* is original because (I assume)
>> it derives from German *ein*. But I don't know enough about the relevant
>> comparative linguistics to say whether this is true, much less how it might
>> translate to your question about Sanskrit *-t *and *-d*.
>> On 3/3/2021 8:33 PM, Mark Allon via INDOLOGY wrote:
>>
>> Dear list members,
>>
>>
>>
>> There seems to be inconsistency in modern Sanskrit grammars as to whether
>> the stems of pronouns and declined forms end in *-d* or *-t*.
>>
>>
>>
>> MacDonnell’s *Sanskrit Grammar for Students* has the stems as *mad,
>> asmad, tvad, yuṣmad, ta(d), ya(d)*, listing the abl. forms of the
>> personal pronouns as *mad, tvad, asmad, yuṣmad*. Of *tad *he gives the
>> nom. acc. sg. n. as * tad* but lists the abl. sg. as *tasmāt*.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kale’s *Higher Sanskrit Grammar* similarly gives the stems forms in *-d*,
>> has * tad* for nom. acc. sg. n., but abl. *tasmāt*.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Devavāṇīpreveśika* gives all stem and declined forms in *-t*.
>>
>>
>>
>> Whitney’s *Sanskrit Grammar* does not seem to list the stems of the
>> personal pronouns but gives the abl. singulars in *-t* as he does with
>> the dem. sg. *tasm**āt*, *asmāt*.
>>
>>
>>
>> Presumably the *-t* forms are influenced by the rule concerning
>> permitted finals (*k, ṭ, t, p, ṅ, n, m* and *ḥ*), but I take this to
>> refer to sandhi in the context of sentence formation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can we say whether *-d* or *-t* forms are original?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr Mark Allon
>>
>> Chair, Dept. of Indian Subcontinental Studies
>>
>> The University of Sydney
>>
>> Australia
>>
>>
>>
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