Re: [INDOLOGY] Source of the post-position ने in Hindi

[andra.kleb at gmail.com]

Additional bibliographic reference that has not been mentioned yet is this:  http://tiny.cc/g0rxmz
ने is treated from different points of view there. I have no access to the publication right now — and google allows me to read only the Introduction —  so I cannot report what it is saying exactly.


best,
Andrey
On 13. Apr 2020, 16:40 +0900, Dick Plukker via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>, wrote:
> Thomas Oberlies, A Historical Grammar of Hindi (2005:29), wisely refrains from giving an etymological explanation for the Hindi postposition ने. In note 8 he refers to L.A. Schwarzschild, Collected Articles (1991:93), who "surmises that the Prakrit/Apabhramsha postposition तणय-  is continued by Hindi and Gujarati ने and Marathi नें/निं."
>
> S.H. Kellogg, A Grammar of the Hindi language, repr. 1965, p. 131-2, shows with a number of arguments - the main of which is the fact that "ne cannot be traced back further than two or three hunderd years" - that this postposition cannot be related to the Sanskrit instrumental -ena. His conclusion: "... we are thus at once led to connect it, like the nai, nai_n, and ná, which in some Western Hindi dialects are substitued for ko, - through the Naipali le, with the root lag; the order of the derivation being as follows: Sk. past. part.act. lagya, Pr. laggio, H. lagi, lai, le , ne."
>
> It seems that the final word on the origin of ne has not yet been spoken.
>
> Stay safe.
>
> Dick Plukker
> Amsterdam
>
> Op 12-4-2020 om 19:15 schreef Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> > To me, it is clear that there is no direct link between the Sanskrit instrumental -ena and Modern Marathi forms like देवाने.  Old Marathi has देवें, and at some point -ने in singular and -नी in plural emerge.  It is unlikely that Marathi would be reverting directly to Sanskrit in this late phase.  The old Marathi inscription has चामुंडरायें करवियले, where Modern Marathi would have चामुंडरायाने करविले.  G. V. Tulpule in his यादवकालीन मराठी भाषा provides many forms that have a similar ending, i.e गंगराजें, दंडनाकें, सावंतें etc. and the plural forms like गुरवी, पंडितीँ, म्हाइंभटीं etc.  The endings that appear in Modern Marathi are not there in the Marathi of the Yadava period.  But ज्ञानेश्वरी has a few forms like तेणे and जेणे and देवाचेनि, indicating that the endings ने/नि do exist at least marginally in Old Marathi.  Some have connected this to the influence of Kannada in the neighborhood.  However, the endings -ने/नी are to be seen in the Marathi of the Peshwa period and then they continue into Modern Marathi.
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >
> >
> > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 9:06 AM Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
> > > > Dear Indologists,
> > > >
> > > >      What is the historical source for the post-position ने in Hindi and ने/नी  in Marathi?  I see some folks connect this directly with the instrumental ending -एन, as in फलेन.  At least in Marathi, I noticed Jules Bloch saying this this -एन simply becomes एं, as in देवें केले in Old Marathi.  But then what is the source of देवाने/देवांनी  in Modern Marathi and ने in राम ने?  Any suggestions?
> > > >
> > > > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > > > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > > > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > > > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> > > >
> > > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >
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