[INDOLOGY] CORRECTION: Help needed translating tantric verse

[Harry Spier]

Thank you  James,
I've now been given three very  different views on the meaning of j *kūrma*
in *jāgrat-kūrma-samśritā *
*View 1  kūrma refers to a withdrawal of the senses  *
 with references to Bh.G.  2.58 and now your reference to  Patanjali
yogasutra 3.32

*View 2  kūrma refers to opening the eyes*
with reference to  Taantrikaabhidhanako"sa vol. II    which references SārK
10.13b: kūrma unmilane sṁrtaḥ
, but kuurma standing for unmiilana (see Taantrikaabhidhanako"sa vol. II
for this definition, it is rather  the "opening of the eyes" unmiilana),
but would understand it as a karmadhaaraya. So the whole compound would
literally mean: resorting to the (state of/vital energy of) eye-opening
which is awakening. Or simply: waking up (slowly), opening the eyes. This
would perhaps fit better in the context, after nidritaa and before
samaalokaya, so she is waking up/opening her eyes (which could also be
interpreted metaphorically of course).

*View 3   kūrma refers to a tortoise supporting the **kuṇḍalinī.*
with reference to diagrams  cakra scrolls from the 17th century onwards.
Note also that the TAK reference for  kūrma also says: "synonym for
mūlādhāra".

Thanks.
Harry Spier


On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 3:17 PM James Hartzell <james.hartzell at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello Harry
>
> I'm just catching up with this thread.
> Do you think the verse may be echoing the idea from the Vibhūti-pāda of
> Patañjali's Yogasutras 3.32, kūrma-nāḍyāṃ sthairyam, i.e., (from performing
> saṃyama) on the tortoise channel (one's mind/psyche attains) stability
> (since one has withdrawn one's attention from external stimuli during
> meditation while awake).
>
> Cheers
> James
>
>
> On 11 Apr 2020, at 18:02, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear Harry,
>
> Please read the whole Chapter 16 “Astronomy, Time-Reckoning, and
> Cosmology” of my book “The Roots of Hinduism” (OUP 2015) for evidence on
> the basis of which I suggest that the basic ideas of the Kuṇḍalinī-yoga and
> the tortoise as representing the setting/night sun (and the yogi
> restraining his senses) go back to the Indus Civilization.
>
> With best wishes,  Asko Parpola
>
> On 11 Apr 2020, at 18.40, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thank you to those who replied off-list.  I've received two very different
> views of the meaning of
>
>  jāgrat-kūrma-samśritā in the verse which I've summarized below.
>
>
> VIEW 1
>
>
>      The Bhagavadgītā uses the example of Kūrma for a state of the
> complete withdrawal of the senses:
>
>
> *yadā saṃharate cāyaṃ kūrmo' ṅgānīva sarvaśaḥ /*
>
> *indriyāṇīndriyārthebhyas tasya prajñā pratiṣṭhitā // 2.58//*
>
>
>      Such a state would contrast with the state referred to by the word
> *jāgrat*.  Thus, it seems refer to the state of focusing inward.  I am
> not quite sure if you would call it sleep, or more likely a conscious
> concentration that directs awareness inwards.
>
>
> Perhaps it means "she who abides in both the waking state and the state of
> complete withdrawal of senses."
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> VIEW 2
>
> I think that kūrma here refers to the microcosmic equivalent of the
> tortoise that supports the world. I don’t know of any clear references to
> this idea in texts, but one often sees Kuṇḍalinī supported by a tortoise in
> “cakra scrolls” from the 17th century onwards. See the attached image for
> an example.
>
> That still leaves jāgrat, which seems odd here. One would want it to
> contrast with nidritā, i.e. to make a distinction between Kuṇḍalinī when
> asleep and awake, but that would require jāgratī. So I think one has to
> understand the compound as meaning “situated on a waking
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Harry Spier
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 6:10 PM Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear list members,
>>
>> Verse 2 of the kuNDalinI stavaH is:
>>
>> raktābhāmṛtacandrikā lipimayī sarpākṛtir nidritā
>>
>> jāgratkūrmasamāśritā bhagavati tvaṁ māṁ samālokaya |
>>
>> māṁsodgandhakugandhadoṣajaḍitaṁ vedādikāryānvitaṁ
>>
>> svalpasvāmalacandrakoṭikiraṇair nityaṁ śarīraṁ kuru || 2 ||
>>
>>
>> I'm uncertain on how to translate jāgratkūrmasamāśritā in line 2.
>>
>> The only (farfetched thought?) I have is that kūrma  refers to the nāḍi
>> that carries the energy that closes the eyes and therefor refers to the
>> sleeping state, so that the phrase means "who abides in the waking and
>> sleeping states".
>>
>> Any help in translating this phrase would be appreciated.
>>
>> Harry Spier
>>
>>
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