[INDOLOGY] CORRECTION: Help needed translating tantric verse

[James Hartzell]

Hello Harry

I'm just catching up with this thread.
Do you think the verse may be echoing the idea from the Vibhūti-pāda of Patañjali's Yogasutras 3.32, kūrma-nāḍyāṃ sthairyam, i.e., (from performing saṃyama) on the tortoise channel (one's mind/psyche attains) stability (since one has withdrawn one's attention from external stimuli during meditation while awake).

Cheers
James
   

> On 11 Apr 2020, at 18:02, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear Harry,
> 
> Please read the whole Chapter 16 “Astronomy, Time-Reckoning, and Cosmology” of my book “The Roots of Hinduism” (OUP 2015) for evidence on the basis of which I suggest that the basic ideas of the Kuṇḍalinī-yoga and the tortoise as representing the setting/night sun (and the yogi restraining his senses) go back to the Indus Civilization.
> 
> With best wishes,  Asko Parpola 
> 
>> On 11 Apr 2020, at 18.40, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you to those who replied off-list.  I've received two very different views of the meaning of 
>>  jāgrat-kūrma-samśritā in the verse which I've summarized below.
>> 
>> VIEW 1
>> 
>>      The Bhagavadgītā uses the example of Kūrma for a state of the complete withdrawal of the senses:
>> 
>> yadā saṃharate cāyaṃ kūrmo' ṅgānīva sarvaśaḥ /
>> indriyāṇīndriyārthebhyas tasya prajñā pratiṣṭhitā // 2.58//
>> 
>>      Such a state would contrast with the state referred to by the word jāgrat.  Thus, it seems refer to the state of focusing inward.  I am not quite sure if you would call it sleep, or more likely a conscious concentration that directs awareness inwards.
>> 
>> Perhaps it means "she who abides in both the waking state and the state of complete withdrawal of senses."
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> VIEW 2
>> I think that kūrma here refers to the microcosmic equivalent of the tortoise that supports the world. I don’t know of any clear references to this idea in texts, but one often sees Kuṇḍalinī supported by a tortoise in “cakra scrolls” from the 17th century onwards. See the attached image for an example.
>> 
>> That still leaves jāgrat, which seems odd here. One would want it to contrast with nidritā, i.e. to make a distinction between Kuṇḍalinī when asleep and awake, but that would require jāgratī. So I think one has to understand the compound as meaning “situated on a waking
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Harry Spier
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 6:10 PM Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear list members,
>>> Verse 2 of the kuNDalinI stavaH is:
>>> raktābhāmṛtacandrikā lipimayī sarpākṛtir nidritā
>>> jāgratkūrmasamāśritā bhagavati tvaṁ māṁ samālokaya |
>>> māṁsodgandhakugandhadoṣajaḍitaṁ vedādikāryānvitaṁ
>>> 
>>> svalpasvāmalacandrakoṭikiraṇair nityaṁ śarīraṁ kuru || 2 ||
>>> 
>>> I'm uncertain on how to translate jāgratkūrmasamāśritā in line 2.
>>> The only (farfetched thought?) I have is that kūrma  refers to the nāḍi that carries the energy that closes the eyes and therefor refers to the sleeping state, so that the phrase means "who abides in the waking and sleeping states".
>>> Any help in translating this phrase would be appreciated.
>>> Harry Spier
>>> 
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