[INDOLOGY] Fwd: Garuda's resolution

Thu Sep 13 22:16:38 UTC 2018

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>
Date: 2018-09-14 0:15 GMT+02:00
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Garuda's resolution
To: Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be>

Dear Christophe,

allow me to disagree re the meaning of *ajanam*. S. jana - taken as a
collective noun - may mean 'subjects'.

*ajanaṃ te kariṣyanti* - could then mean: 'will make you subject-less",
"will deprive you of [your] subjects".

*asmāṃs te hi prabādheyur *-------
*ajanaṃ te kariṣyanti*

Roughly: <<us - they will deprive of our followers, you - of your subjects>>

Very roughly.

Best,

Artur

2018-09-13 17:45 GMT+02:00 Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be
>:

> Dear Artur
>
> I would not take ajanam as an adj. depending of [tvām = Garudam] but as a
> neutral subst. = a desert [place], a [place] devoid of people. Indeed if
> the serpents are immortals and poison all the people, it will be the case.
> See the same interpretation by J. Charpentier *Die Supar**ṇ**asag*e p.
> 269-270 (making also the // with the MBh 1,30.7) :
>
> https://archive.org/stream/diesuparnasageun00charuoft#page/270
>
> "da werden sie Menschenleere bewirken"
>
> In the MBh, I understand that "they would expel *us*" (it is Indra who
> speaks) = the gods (normal, since by loosing the amrta they would lose
> their overlordship).
>
> Best,
>
> Christophe
>
> Le 13 sept. 2018 à 16:02, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> a écrit :
>
> Great thanks, Christophe.
>
> I have found Tripathi's edition of the Suparnadhyaya:
>
> https://archive.org/stream/SuparnaAdhyayaCommentaryJayaSwamy
> Ed.GayaCharanTripathiDramaOfVedicAge/Suparna%20Adhyaya%20Com
> mentary%20Jaya%20Swamy%20Ed.%20Gaya%20Charan%20Tripathi%20%
> 28Drama%20of%20Vedic%20Age%29#page/n0
>
> What catches my interest is that Astikaparvan's Indra while warning Garuda
> against offering the Soma [to the serpents] says that they would then expel
> [prabādheyur] the giver. In the Suparnadhyaya  - if the serpents (sarpāḥ)
> are given [even on] drop [of Soma] they would make him [Garuda]
> people-less [ajanam]. 'Expulsion' made into 'genocide'? If so - what could
> be the reason for this change? For such reinforcement in the meaning of the
> key phrase?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Artur Karp
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2018-09-12 9:32 GMT+02:00 Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.b
> e>:
>
>> The snakes (to whom Garuḍa is ready to bring the stolen Soma).
>> See the story as told in the late Vedic metrical play Suparṇādhyāya, sūkta
>> 14, varga 28, v. 10,
>> ed. and transl. Gaya Charan Tripathi (New Delhi: Nat.Mis.Mss and
>> DKPrintworld, 2016), pp. 252 (critically restored text), 295 (transl.)
>> induṃ cet sarpāḥ pāsyanti tvayā dattaṃ vihaṅgama |
>> ajanaṃ te kariṣyanti tan na sādhu bhaviṣyati ||10||
>> [Indra to Garuḍa]
>> “In case the snakes [are allowed to] drink the Soma (= amṛtam) [bought
>> by you and] given to them, [[o Bird]], they will make a clean sweep of all
>> human beings [on earth]. This [surely] wouldn't be nice.”
>> And in sūkta 15, varga 29, v. 6, Indra turning to Garuḍa (who has
>> visited the serpents, but has not given them the Sma):
>> “I have excelled all my ennemies in might. Because of my might I am all
>> in this (i.e. overlord of this) world. How did you [dare to] take away by
>> force the Soma which is pressed [especially] for such a mightier than
>> mighty [person] like me.”
>> So one can infer that the soma provides this almightiness.
>>
>> Le 11 sept. 2018 à 21:14, Artur Karp via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> a écrit :
>>
>> Dear List Memebers,
>>
>> First of all: my thanks to all who gave me their time and answered my
>> query - preventing me from commiting a grave error. To Roland Steiner, Hans
>> Henrich Hock, David and Nancy Reigle, Tracy Coleman.
>>
>> Now, my second question ---
>>
>> In Mbh I, 30.7c-e Indra says (to Garuda):
>>
>> 01.030.007c na kāryaṃ tava somena mama somaḥ pradīyatām
>> 01.030.007e asmāṃs te hi prabādheyur yebhyo dadyād bhavān imam
>>
>> VanBuitenen 1973: 90: "If you have no need for the soma, return the soma
>> to me. For those to whom you may give it will forever best us".
>>
>> [ad 'best':  Monier-Williams has several other - sort of 'sharper' -
>> meanings for pra-bādh: to repel, drive away, keep off (Mbh); to torment,
>> vex, hurt, injure, annoy.
>>
>> By the way - Kalyanov (I value his pioneering translation immensely)
>> 1950: 103: "Yesli ty ne nameren vospol'zovat'sya somoy, to day yeyo mne.
>> Ibo te, kotorym sobirayesh'sya dat' yeyo, budut vredit' nam". 'Budut
>> vredit' nam' - 'shall injure us'; no 'forever'.]
>>
>> *Whom the myth makers may have in mind when they speak about those who
>> "will forever best us"? *
>>
>> I'd be grateful if the comments were directed to the List, not to my
>> private e-mail address.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Artur Karp (M.A.)
>> Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.)
>> South Asian Studies Department
>> University of Warsaw
>>
>>
>>
>> 2018-09-10 7:47 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>:
>>
>>> Dear List,
>>>
>>> In Mbh I, 30.8 *b* Garuda says:
>>>
>>> na dāsyāmi samādātuṃ somaṃ kasmaicidapyaham
>>>
>>> *kasmaicid* - (to) *whom*?
>>>
>>> Who is going to be excluded?
>>>
>>> Your opinion, please?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Artur Karp
>>>
>>
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>>
>> –––––––––––––––––––
>> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> –––––––––––––––––––
> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>
>
>

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