Dear Artur

I would not take ajanam as an adj. depending of [tvām = Garudam] but as a neutral subst. = a desert [place], a [place] devoid of people. Indeed if the serpents are immortals and poison all the people, it will be the case. See the same interpretation by J. Charpentier Die Suparṇasage p. 269-270 (making also the // with the MBh 1,30.7) :

https://archive.org/stream/diesuparnasageun00charuoft#page/270

"da werden sie Menschenleere bewirken"

In the MBh, I understand that "they would expel us" (it is Indra who speaks) = the gods (normal, since by loosing the amrta they would lose their overlordship).

Best,

Christophe

Le 13 sept. 2018 à 16:02, Artur Karp <karp@uw.edu.pl> a écrit :

Great thanks, Christophe. 

I have found Tripathi's edition of the Suparnadhyaya:

https://archive.org/stream/SuparnaAdhyayaCommentaryJayaSwamyEd.GayaCharanTripathiDramaOfVedicAge/Suparna%20Adhyaya%20Commentary%20Jaya%20Swamy%20Ed.%20Gaya%20Charan%20Tripathi%20%28Drama%20of%20Vedic%20Age%29#page/n0

What catches my interest is that Astikaparvan's Indra while warning Garuda against offering the Soma [to the serpents] says that they would then expel [prabādheyur] the giver. In the Suparnadhyaya  - if the serpents (sarpāḥ) are given [even on] drop [of Soma] they would make him [Garuda]  people-less [ajanam]. 'Expulsion' made into 'genocide'? If so - what could be the reason for this change? For such reinforcement in the meaning of the key phrase?

Thanks again,

Artur Karp

2018-09-12 9:32 GMT+02:00 Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle@uclouvain.be>:

The snakes (to whom Garuḍa is ready to bring the stolen Soma).

See the story as told in the late Vedic metrical play Suparṇādhyāya, sūkta 14, varga 28, v. 10,

ed. and transl. Gaya Charan Tripathi (New Delhi: Nat.Mis.Mss and DKPrintworld, 2016), pp. 252 (critically restored text), 295 (transl.)

induṃ cet sarpāḥ pāsyanti tvayā dattaṃ vihaṅgama |

ajanaṃ te kariṣyanti tan na sādhu bhaviṣyati ||10||

[Indra to Garuḍa]

“In case the snakes [are allowed to] drink the Soma (= amṛtam) [bought by you and] given to them, [[o Bird]], they will make a clean sweep of all human beings [on earth]. This [surely] wouldn't be nice.”

And in sūkta 15, varga 29, v. 6, Indra turning to Garuḍa (who has visited the serpents, but has not given them the Sma):

“I have excelled all my ennemies in might. Because of my might I am all in this (i.e. overlord of this) world. How did you [dare to] take away by force the Soma which is pressed [especially] for such a mightier than mighty [person] like me.”

So one can infer that the soma provides this almightiness.

Le 11 sept. 2018 à 21:14, Artur Karp via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> a écrit :

Dear List Memebers, 

First of all: my thanks to all who gave me their time and answered my query - preventing me from commiting a grave error. To Roland Steiner, Hans Henrich Hock, David and Nancy Reigle, Tracy Coleman. 

Now, my second question ---

In Mbh I, 30.7c-e Indra says (to Garuda):

01.030.007c na kāryaṃ tava somena mama somaḥ pradīyatām
01.030.007e asmāṃs te hi prabādheyur yebhyo dadyād bhavān imam

VanBuitenen 1973: 90: "If you have no need for the soma, return the soma to me. For those to whom you may give it will forever best us". 

[ad 'best':  Monier-Williams has several other - sort of 'sharper' - meanings for pra-bādh: to repel, drive away, keep off (Mbh); to torment, vex, hurt, injure, annoy. 

By the way - Kalyanov (I value his pioneering translation immensely) 1950: 103: "Yesli ty ne nameren vospol'zovat'sya somoy, to day yeyo mne. Ibo te, kotorym sobirayesh'sya dat' yeyo, budut vredit' nam". 'Budut vredit' nam' - 'shall injure us'; no 'forever'.] 

Whom the myth makers may have in mind when they speak about those who "will forever best us"? 

I'd be grateful if the comments were directed to the List, not to my private e-mail address.

Thanks, 

Artur Karp (M.A.)

Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.)

South Asian Studies Department

University of Warsaw

2018-09-10 7:47 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp <karp@uw.edu.pl>:

Dear List, 

In Mbh I, 30.8 b Garuda says:

na dāsyāmi samādātuṃ somaṃ kasmaicidapyaham 

kasmaicid - (to) whom? 

Who is going to be excluded?

Your opinion, please?

Thank you, 

Artur Karp

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Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve

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Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve