[INDOLOGY] 'Vedic' astrology (was: bhakti)

Tue Nov 15 20:09:39 UTC 2016

Dear Patrick, Dagmar,

Since someone mentioned the important work by Dikshit, I should point out that he did refer to the concept of Vedic Astrology. But as I pointed out in an earlier mail, this Vedic Astrology is very different from what is generally called Vedic Astrology these days. In the 1968 English translation, the passage I had in mind (Vol.1, p.63) refers to “post-Vedic works on astrology” in contrast to Vedic astrology based on nakṣatras as in the Taittirīya saṃhitā, etc. Since Dikshit’s work first came out in Marathi 1896, the idea of Vedic astrology certainly cannot be said to be new. For those who are not familiar with the historiography of jyotiṣa studies, it is important to bear in mind that some of Dikshit’s ways of classifying what he considered as Vedic astrology and astronomy have been refuted by both Indian and non-Indian scholars since then. For example, under the heading “vedāṅga period” which Dikshit dated to 1400 BC, he would put under the heading of “Yajurveda jyotiṣa” topics such as horoscopic and zodiac concepts such as “lagna" and “meṣa," although these concepts are never found in the the texts he referred to. In fact, most historians today believe the Zodiac with twelve “signs," originated in Babylonia, cannot be dated earlier 5th century BCE with both textual and archeological evidences.

I am aware that the discussants on this thread are not so much interested in the actual content of Vedic astrology or astronomy, but I still think the content should be more carefully scrutinized before one decides whether “Vedic" is the correct label and why it was applied. The Vedic Planetarium that ISKON is currently constructing is an interesting case. As it is explained in their website under “Vedic Science” (https://tovp.org/vedic-science/ <https://tovp.org/vedic-science/>), one may find some bewildering claims under the headings “vedic cosmology” and “vedic planetarium” that no serious scholar can subscribe to. For example,

The Temple of the Vedic Planetarium is named as such because within its main dome it will house a 3-dimensional, moving model of the universe according to the Vedic scriptures. This explanation describes the planetary systems and all the universal contents to be in the shape of an incredible chandelier.

It seems to me a futile to debunk every single one of their claims and their indiscriminate use of the Vedic as a label for everything believed to be of scriptural authority.

-- 
Bill M. Mak

Institute for the Study of the Ancient World (ISAW)
New York University
15 East 84th Street
New York, NY 10028
US

Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8501
Japan
〒606-8501 京都市左京区吉田本町
京都大学人文科学研究所

Tel:+81-75-753-6961
Fax:+81-75-753-6903

copies of my publications may be found at:
http://www.billmak.com

> On Nov 15, 2016, at 12:16 PM, Dagmar Wujastyk <d.wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> One group that always emphasizes "Vedic" in their representations of Indian traditions are the followers of Maharishi (Transcendental Meditation, Maharishi Ayurved, etc.), and I believe that this group may have been very influential in the use of the term among practitioners in the West. See http://www.maharishijyotishprogram.eu/ <http://www.maharishijyotishprogram.eu/> for their astrology programme.
> I am not sure how far back in time their astrology programme goes. I don't know of anyone having specifically analysed their use of "Vedic". Papers on Maharishi Ayurved can be found in Modern and Global Ayurveda (SUNY Press), edited by Fred Smith and myself.
> Best wishes,
> Dagmar
> 
> On 14 November 2016 at 21:06, patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com <mailto:psdmccartney at gmail.com>> wrote:
> parts  1 and 2 of the english version are available below
> 
>  <http://goog_671250440/>
> https://archive.org/details/BharatiyaJyotishSastra1 <https://archive.org/details/BharatiyaJyotishSastra1>
> 
> https://archive.org/details/BharatiyaJyotishSastra2 <https://archive.org/details/BharatiyaJyotishSastra2>
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Fellow
> School of Culture, History & Language
> College of the Asia-Pacific
> The Australian National University
> Canberra, Australia, 0200
> 
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> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com <mailto:hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear list members,
> 
> For a detailed history of Indian Astronomy/Astrology from the Vedic period  to the modern period see:
> Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra by S. B. Dikshit.
> 
> There is an english translation of this by R.V. Vaidya
> published by the India Meteorological Department.
> 
> Harry Spier
> 
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Bill Mak <bill.m.mak at gmail.com <mailto:bill.m.mak at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> Without examining the actual content of “Vedic astrology", I believe this discussion may become completely misguided. If one talks about the lunar astrology “hinted at” in the Vedāṅgajyotiṣa, indeed Vedic astrology seems the correct term. >From the extant materials, this form of Vedic astrology based on 27/28 nakṣatra-s was practiced by the Buddhists and Jains. By the time of Varāhamihira, only remnants survived as collected in the Bṛhatsaṃhitā.
> 
> As far as I can tell, what is referred to “Vedic astrology” refers actually to Greco-Indian horoscopy. Not only does it have little in common with the older “Vedic astrology”, the way it was conceptualized was completely different - it is based on solar motion, using zodiac, planets and planetary relation, concepts which are absent and foreign in the Vedic corpus. Unless one stretches the definition of Vedic to cover everything under the Indian civilization, “Vedic astrology” as such is a pure misnomer. No scholars on jyotiṣa would commit such travesty, from Kane, PV Sarma to Pingree.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Bill Mak
> 
> -- 
> Bill M. Mak, PhD
> 
> Visiting research scholar
> Institute for the Study of the Ancient World (ISAW)
> New York University
> 15 East 84th Street
> New York, NY 10028
> US
> 
> Associate Professor
> Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
> Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501
> 〒606-8501 京都市左京区吉田本町
> 京都大学人文科学研究所
> 
> email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp <mailto:mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp>
> Tel:+81-75-753-6961 <tel:%2B81-75-753-6961>
> Fax:+81-75-753-6903 <tel:%2B81-75-753-6903>
> 
> copies of my publications may be found at:
> http://www.billmak.com <http://www.billmak.com/>
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2016, at 2:11 PM, Robert Zydenbos <zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de <mailto:zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de>> wrote:
>> 
>> patrick mccartney wrote:
>> 
>>> I guess the question for me specifically regarding Vedic astrology is exactly the point Valerie and Luis raise. It could be called by the astrologers 'Indian Astrology', and perhaps it is a better representation, however they have settled on the use of Vedic to qualify their predictive system. Although, it's possible that someone out there might think that 'South Asian astrology' is a better term because all this knowledge developed prior to the birth of the Indian nation.
>> 
>> If we ask such questions, there is the real danger that we enter the field of endless 'politically correct' quarrels. (E.g., is it not Western hybris to use the word 'Indian' for ancient Bhāratīya knowledge systems? etc. etc.)
>> 
>> As for 'Vedic' astrology vis-à-vis other systems of astrology: there are also plenty of Jaina astrological practitioners (one of them has / had a regular program on a commercial South Indian TV station), there is a long and serious tradition of writing on astrological subjects by Jaina authors, and systemically I do not see any major differences with 'Vedic' astrology.
>> 
>> The only significant difference I have come across concerns methods of prāyaścitta. I once heard a Jaina astrologer in Karnataka advise a person to pray to 'Infant Jesus' to counteract a certain planet's influence. The next person happened to have the same difficult, and she said "he should pray to Infant Jesus, but since you re a Jaina, you should do japa of this mantra to Munisuvratasvāmi". Brahmins, so she said, would have to do a pūjā to Viṣṇu.
>> 
>> Intrigued by these bits of advice, I asked the astrologer more about how this works. She said that ultimately the worship of all those beings (Infant Jesus, Munisuvrata, Viṣṇu) produced the same effect, but only if the worshipper had real faith in what s/he was doing. Hence the object of worship needed to be chosen accordingly.
>> 
>> Such experiences only strengthen my belief that there is nothing 'Vedic' at all about 'Vedic astrology' except the conventional religious window dressing by certain brahmin astrologers.
>> 
>> RZ
>> 
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