[INDOLOGY] Les mathématiques de l'autel védique

Tue Nov 15 20:06:14 UTC 2016

Dear list,

Your discussion reminds me the so-called Vedic mathematics, which are not Vedic at all. That is the reason why I have myself been very cautious not to use Vedic directly associated with mathematics in the title of my (just published) book : Les mathématiques de l'autel védique, or Mathematics of the Vedic Altar (the book is mainly in French). The altar is definitely vedic, and also the mathematics used to build it and explained in the book, but they are very different of what is nowadays - and inaccurately - called Vedic mathematics. If you want more information, see http://www.droz.org/eur/fr/6416-9782600013826.html

Best regards,

Jean Michel Delire

>Hi Patrick,
>
>One group that always emphasizes "Vedic" in their representations of Indian
>traditions are the followers of Maharishi (Transcendental Meditation,
>Maharishi Ayurved, etc.), and I believe that this group may have been very
>influential in the use of the term among practitioners in the West. See
>http://www.maharishijyotishprogram.eu/ for their astrology programme.
>I am not sure how far back in time their astrology programme goes. I don't
>know of anyone having specifically analysed their use of "Vedic". Papers on
>Maharishi Ayurved can be found in *Modern and Global Ayurveda* (SUNY
>Press), edited by Fred Smith and myself.
>Best wishes,
>Dagmar
>
>On 14 November 2016 at 21:06, patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> parts  1 and 2 of the english version are available below
>>
>> <http://goog_671250440>
>> https://archive.org/details/BharatiyaJyotishSastra1
>>
>> https://archive.org/details/BharatiyaJyotishSastra2
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>> Fellow
>> School of Culture, History & Language
>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>> The Australian National University
>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>
>>
>> Skype - psdmccartney
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>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear list members,
>>>
>>> For a detailed history of Indian Astronomy/Astrology from the Vedic
>>> period  to the modern period see:
>>> Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra by S. B. Dikshit.
>>>
>>> There is an english translation of this by R.V. Vaidya
>>> published by the India Meteorological Department.
>>>
>>> Harry Spier
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Bill Mak <bill.m.mak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> Without examining the actual content of ?Vedic astrology", I believe
>>>> this discussion may become completely misguided. If one talks about the
>>>> lunar astrology ?hinted at? in the *Ved??gajyoti?a, *indeed Vedic
>>>> astrology seems the correct term. From the extant materials, this form of
>>>> Vedic astrology based on 27/28 nak?atra-s was practiced by the Buddhists
>>>> and Jains. By the time of Var?hamihira, only remnants survived as collected
>>>> in the *B?hatsa?hit?*.
>>>>
>>>> As far as I can tell, what is referred to ?Vedic astrology? refers
>>>> actually to Greco-Indian horoscopy. Not only does it have little in common
>>>> with the older ?Vedic astrology?, the way it was conceptualized was
>>>> completely different - it is based on solar motion, using zodiac, planets
>>>> and planetary relation, concepts which are absent and foreign in the Vedic
>>>> corpus. Unless one stretches the definition of Vedic to cover everything
>>>> under the Indian civilization, ?Vedic astrology? as such is a pure
>>>> misnomer. No scholars on *jyoti?a* would commit such travesty, from
>>>> Kane, PV Sarma to Pingree.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Bill Mak
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Bill M. Mak, PhD
>>>>
>>>> Visiting research scholar
>>>> Institute for the Study of the Ancient World (ISAW)
>>>> New York University
>>>> 15 East 84th Street
>>>> New York, NY 10028
>>>> US
>>>>
>>>> Associate Professor
>>>> Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
>>>> Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501
>>>> ?606-8501 ??????????
>>>> ???????????
>>>>
>>>> email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp
>>>> Tel:+81-75-753-6961
>>>> Fax:+81-75-753-6903
>>>>
>>>> copies of my publications may be found at:
>>>> http://www.billmak.com
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 13, 2016, at 2:11 PM, Robert Zydenbos <zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> patrick mccartney wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I guess the question for me specifically regarding Vedic astrology is
>>>> exactly the point Valerie and Luis raise. It could be called by the
>>>> astrologers 'Indian Astrology', and perhaps it is a better representation,
>>>> however they have settled on the use of Vedic to qualify their predictive
>>>> system. Although, it's possible that someone out there might think that
>>>> 'South Asian astrology' is a better term because all this knowledge
>>>> developed prior to the birth of the Indian nation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If we ask such questions, there is the real danger that we enter the
>>>> field of endless 'politically correct' quarrels. (E.g., is it not Western
>>>> hybris to use the word 'Indian' for ancient Bh?rat?ya knowledge systems?
>>>> etc. etc.)
>>>>
>>>> As for 'Vedic' astrology vis-à-vis other systems of astrology: there are
>>>> also plenty of Jaina astrological practitioners (one of them has / had a
>>>> regular program on a commercial South Indian TV station), there is a long
>>>> and serious tradition of writing on astrological subjects by Jaina authors,
>>>> and systemically I do not see any major differences with 'Vedic' astrology.
>>>>
>>>> The only significant difference I have come across concerns methods of
>>>> pr?ya?citta. I once heard a Jaina astrologer in Karnataka advise a person
>>>> to pray to 'Infant Jesus' to counteract a certain planet's influence. The
>>>> next person happened to have the same difficult, and she said "he should
>>>> pray to Infant Jesus, but since you re a Jaina, you should do japa of this
>>>> mantra to Munisuvratasv?mi". Brahmins, so she said, would have to do a p?j?
>>>> to Vi??u.
>>>>
>>>> Intrigued by these bits of advice, I asked the astrologer more about how
>>>> this works. She said that ultimately the worship of all those beings
>>>> (Infant Jesus, Munisuvrata, Vi??u) produced the same effect, but only if
>>>> the worshipper had real faith in what s/he was doing. Hence the object of
>>>> worship needed to be chosen accordingly.
>>>>
>>>> Such experiences only strengthen my belief that there is nothing 'Vedic'
>>>> at all about 'Vedic astrology' except the conventional religious window
>>>> dressing by certain brahmin astrologers.
>>>>
>>>> RZ
>>>>
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