[INDOLOGY] 'Vedic' astrology (was: bhakti)

Tue Nov 15 00:25:12 UTC 2016

Nagaraj,

I'm fascinated by your insights into the heterogenous nature of jyotiṣa.
Particularly the claim regarding Tribal jyotiṣa. Are you able to share any
more detail on this? This seems like a great topic for a paper. It seems as
if western practitioners and their client base are the only ones using the
term 'vedic astrology'. However, a quick search of google for 'vedic
astrology india' shows several examples of Indian-based astrologers that
claim to use and identify with the term 'vedic astrology' - for instance  -
http://www.indastro.com/ - now, perhaps they are based in India but cater
to a western clientele? Or perhaps, those based in NYC only cater to
videsilog? But even if one searches for 'वैदिक ज्योतिष' it brings up a heap
of hits. So your claim that this "is being done by the western circles of
the practice and the English tag 'Vedic' is needed by them and is used by
them. Brahmin and non-Brahmin contemporary  busy practitioners do not even
need this English word or its Indian language forms such as Vaidik or
Vaidika", seems to need some nuancing.

All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200

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On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 2:28 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> > Such experiences only strengthen my belief that there is nothing 'Vedic'
> at all about 'Vedic astrology' except the conventional religious window
> dressing by certain brahmin astrologers.
>
> Robert, today, what is being called as 'Vedic' astrology in the English
> knowing circles is not practiced only by Brahmins. Whatever dressing or
> cosmetics is being done is being done by the western circles of the
> practice and the English tag 'Vedic' is needed by them and is used by them.
> Brahmin and non-Brahmin contemporary  busy practitioners do not even need
> this English word or its Indian language forms such as Vaidik or Vaidika.
>
> You mentioned a Jaina practitioner and her appearance on TV. Here, we have
> Muslim practitioners appearing/advertising on TV. There are tribal
> practitioners claiming authentic tribal jyotishya. None of the Brahmin or
> non-Brahmin practitioners appearing on TV or the  TV people themselves use
> the words such as 'Vedic' 'Vaidik' or 'Vaidika'.
>
> Such belief systems and their believers do not need any such
> tags. Satisfaction of knowing the destiny and handling it is all that
> isimportant. Not whether it is Jaina, Muslim or Tribal , Tantric, or
> whatever.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Bill Mak <bill.m.mak at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Without examining the actual content of “Vedic astrology", I believe this
>> discussion may become completely misguided. If one talks about the lunar
>> astrology “hinted at” in the *Vedāṅgajyotiṣa, *indeed Vedic astrology
>> seems the correct term. From the extant materials, this form of Vedic
>> astrology based on 27/28 nakṣatra-s was practiced by the Buddhists and
>> Jains. By the time of Varāhamihira, only remnants survived as collected in
>> the *Bṛhatsaṃhitā*.
>>
>> As far as I can tell, what is referred to “Vedic astrology” refers
>> actually to Greco-Indian horoscopy. Not only does it have little in common
>> with the older “Vedic astrology”, the way it was conceptualized was
>> completely different - it is based on solar motion, using zodiac, planets
>> and planetary relation, concepts which are absent and foreign in the Vedic
>> corpus. Unless one stretches the definition of Vedic to cover everything
>> under the Indian civilization, “Vedic astrology” as such is a pure
>> misnomer. No scholars on *jyotiṣa* would commit such travesty, from
>> Kane, PV Sarma to Pingree.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Bill Mak
>>
>> --
>> Bill M. Mak, PhD
>>
>> Visiting research scholar
>> Institute for the Study of the Ancient World (ISAW)
>> New York University
>> 15 East 84th Street
>> New York, NY 10028
>> US
>>
>> Associate Professor
>> Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
>> Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501
>> 〒606-8501 京都市左京区吉田本町
>> 京都大学人文科学研究所
>>
>> email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp
>> Tel:+81-75-753-6961
>> Fax:+81-75-753-6903
>>
>> copies of my publications may be found at:
>> http://www.billmak.com
>>
>> On Nov 13, 2016, at 2:11 PM, Robert Zydenbos <zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>> patrick mccartney wrote:
>>
>> I guess the question for me specifically regarding Vedic astrology is
>> exactly the point Valerie and Luis raise. It could be called by the
>> astrologers 'Indian Astrology', and perhaps it is a better representation,
>> however they have settled on the use of Vedic to qualify their predictive
>> system. Although, it's possible that someone out there might think that
>> 'South Asian astrology' is a better term because all this knowledge
>> developed prior to the birth of the Indian nation.
>>
>>
>> If we ask such questions, there is the real danger that we enter the
>> field of endless 'politically correct' quarrels. (E.g., is it not Western
>> hybris to use the word 'Indian' for ancient Bhāratīya knowledge systems?
>> etc. etc.)
>>
>> As for 'Vedic' astrology vis-à-vis other systems of astrology: there are
>> also plenty of Jaina astrological practitioners (one of them has / had a
>> regular program on a commercial South Indian TV station), there is a long
>> and serious tradition of writing on astrological subjects by Jaina authors,
>> and systemically I do not see any major differences with 'Vedic' astrology.
>>
>> The only significant difference I have come across concerns methods of
>> prāyaścitta. I once heard a Jaina astrologer in Karnataka advise a person
>> to pray to 'Infant Jesus' to counteract a certain planet's influence. The
>> next person happened to have the same difficult, and she said "he should
>> pray to Infant Jesus, but since you re a Jaina, you should do japa of this
>> mantra to Munisuvratasvāmi". Brahmins, so she said, would have to do a pūjā
>> to Viṣṇu.
>>
>> Intrigued by these bits of advice, I asked the astrologer more about how
>> this works. She said that ultimately the worship of all those beings
>> (Infant Jesus, Munisuvrata, Viṣṇu) produced the same effect, but only if
>> the worshipper had real faith in what s/he was doing. Hence the object of
>> worship needed to be chosen accordingly.
>>
>> Such experiences only strengthen my belief that there is nothing 'Vedic'
>> at all about 'Vedic astrology' except the conventional religious window
>> dressing by certain brahmin astrologers.
>>
>> RZ
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
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