[INDOLOGY] Mind and moon

Sun Jul 31 10:01:42 UTC 2016

Dear colleagues,

"Jeu de mots sur *mans *et *candrama*, radical *man *et radical *ma* (sic)"
should be corrected to:
"Jeu de mots sur *manas *et *candrama*, radical *man *et radical *ma* (sic)"

Seishi Karashima

2016-07-31 18:52 GMT+09:00 Seishi Karashima <skarashima at gmail.com>:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> I assume that, when Renou associated etymologically *candramas* with
> *manas*, he may have had Senart’s explanation in his mind. Senart had
> explained this association as being based on a play on the roots √*mā* in
> *candramās* “moon” and √*man* in *manas*: Émile Senart, *Essai sur la
> légende du Buddha: Son caractère et ses origines*, 2e éd., revue et
> suivie d’un index, Paris 1882: E. Leroux, p. 94, n. 3 "Jeu de mots sur *mans
> *et *candrama*, radical *man *et radical *ma* (sic)".
>
> Cf. also Paul Deussen, *Allgemeine Geschichte der Philosophie: Mit
> besonderer Berücksichtigung der Religionen*, Leipzig 1920: F.A.
> Brockhaus, (4. Auflage), I, 1, p. 156, “dass endlich sein *Manas* zum
> Monde wird, hat vielleicht seinen Grund darin, dass die ruhige Klarheit des
> Mondlichts (welches ja auch nach Goethe „die Seele löst“) als Symbol des
> Intellektuellen erschien.”
>
> The best article on this topic is probably: Jan Gonda, “Mind and Moon”,
> in: *Deyadharma, Studies in Memory of Dr. D.C. Sircar*, edited by
> Gouriswar Bhattacharya, Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications, distributed by
> Indian Book Center, 1986 (Sri Garib Dass Oriental Series ; no. 33), pp.
> 147-160 = *Selected Studies*, Leiden *et* *al.* 1991: Brill, vol. VI, pt.
> 2, pp. 423-436.
>
> With best regards,
>
> Seishi Karashima
> 2016-07-28 17:35 GMT+09:00 <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>:
>
>> Thanks, Valerie, for the Varahamihira quote. It shows an extension of the
>> microcosm idea to
>> the planets, keeping the mind-moon pair (but not the eye-sun one). The
>> mind-moon pair is
>> one of the most stable of these pairings, as well as the least explicable.
>>
>> Verbal similarities can be very profound, especially in the Brahmanas.
>> But in this case I'm not
>> sure there is much verbal similarity: in RV 10.90.13 the words are manas
>> and candramas (in
>> Brhadaranyaka Up. 3.2.13 it's manas and candra, which is even less
>> similar). It's not a
>> similarity of the same order as indra-indha (Satapatha Br 6.1.1.2; Brh Up
>> 4.2.2). That made
>> me wonder whether Renou, in invoking word-play as an explanation, was
>> misled by his
>> knowledge of the Indo-European cognates of Skt mas and manas.
>>
>> With best wishes,
>>
>> Dermot
>>
>> On 28 Jul 2016 at 7:45, Valerie Roebuck wrote:
>>
>> I think it's meant to be a bit more profound than a verbal similarity -
>> though of course these
>> were widely thought not to be merely coincidental. We find the same
>> correspondence in
>> astrological texts, too, e.g. in Varahamihira's Bhajjataka, Chapter 2 v.
>> 1a, where the seven
>> planets of the ancient world are placed on the macrocosmic man of Time.
>>
>> kalatma dina-krn manas tuhinagu satva kujo jño vaco jivo jñana-sukhe
>> sita´s ca madano
>> dukha dine´satmaja  /
>>
>>
>> The Sun ['Day-maker'] is the self (atman) of Time, the Moon
>> ['Cool-rayed'] his mind (manas),
>> Mars ['Earth-born'] his courage, Mercury ['Knower'] his speech, Jupiter
>> ['Life'] his knowledge
>> and happiness, Venus ['White One'] his desire, and Saturn ['Son of the
>> Lord of Day'] his
>> suffering.
>>
>> The Moon has a very important place in Indian astrology, but here perhaps
>> it is regarded as
>> representing a less profound (because more changeable?) level of being
>> than the Sun.
>>
>> Valerie J Roebuck
>> Manchester, UK
>>
>>     On 28 Jul 2016, at 06:32, naresh keerthi <nakeerthi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>     Renou Etudes Vediques vol XVI p. 150 says it's a play on words.
>>
>>     I don't have access to this source, but is it possible that this
>> conjecture is based on the
>>     similarity of mati = mind [Sanskrit, but also used in Tamil] and mati
>> = moon in Tamil?
>>
>>
>>
>>     Best,
>>     Naresh Keerthi
>>     National Institute of Advanced Studies,
>>     Bangalore
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------
>>
>>     Message: 2
>>     Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 10:47:45 +0100
>>     From: dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk
>>     To: indology at list.indology.info
>>     Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mind and moon
>>     Message-ID: <57988341.1727.8FD05B at dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>
>>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>>     Can anyone explain why the mind is the microcosmic counterpart of the
>> moon?
>>     The
>>     correspondence appears in Rgveda 10.90.13 and in countless passages
>> of the
>>     Brahmanas
>>     and Upanisads, but it's not obvious like breath and wind.
>>
>>     Renou ?tudes V?diques vol XVI p. 150 says it's a play on words. I
>> find that hard
>>     to accept,
>>     because the words (candra-mas and manas) are not very similar (they
>> are in
>>     Latin, but the
>>     sages didn't have access to an Indo-European comparative dictionary).
>>
>>     Could the connection be through soma (often linked or identified with
>> the moon),
>>     since the
>>     mind is called a pavitra through which poetic insight (dhI) flows and
>> becomes
>>     offerings
>>     (Gonda Vision of the Vedic Poets pp. 278-9)?
>>
>>     Or is it that the mind, like the moon, is constant though its content
>> continually
>>     changes?
>>
>>     --
>>     Dermot Killingley
>>     9, Rectory Drive,
>>     Gosforth,
>>     Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
>>     Phone (0191) 285 8053
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Dermot Killingley
>> 9, Rectory Drive,
>> Gosforth,
>> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
>> Phone (0191) 285 8053
>>
>>
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>
>

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