Dear colleagues,

"Jeu de mots sur mans et candrama, radical man et radical ma (sic)"
should be corrected to:
"Jeu de mots sur manas et candrama, radical man et radical ma (sic)"

Seishi Karashima

2016-07-31 18:52 GMT+09:00 Seishi Karashima <>:

Dear colleagues,

I assume that, when Renou associated etymologically candramas with manas, he may have had Senart’s explanation in his mind. Senart had explained this association as being based on a play on the roots √ in candramās “moon” and √man in manas: Émile Senart, Essai sur la légende du Buddha: Son caractère et ses origines, 2e éd., revue et suivie d’un index, Paris 1882: E. Leroux, p. 94, n. 3 "Jeu de mots sur mans et candrama, radical man et radical ma (sic)".

Cf. also Paul Deussen, Allgemeine Geschichte der Philosophie: Mit besonderer Berücksichtigung der Religionen, Leipzig 1920: F.A. Brockhaus, (4. Auflage), I, 1, p. 156, “dass endlich sein Manas zum Monde wird, hat vielleicht seinen Grund darin, dass die ruhige Klarheit des Mondlichts (welches ja auch nach Goethe „die Seele löst“) als Symbol des Intellektuellen erschien.”

The best article on this topic is probably: Jan Gonda, “Mind and Moon”, in: Deyadharma, Studies in Memory of Dr. D.C. Sircar, edited by Gouriswar Bhattacharya, Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications, distributed by Indian Book Center, 1986 (Sri Garib Dass Oriental Series ; no. 33), pp. 147-160 = Selected Studies, Leiden et al. 1991: Brill, vol. VI, pt. 2, pp. 423-436.

With best regards,

Seishi Karashima

2016-07-28 17:35 GMT+09:00 <>:
Thanks, Valerie, for the Varahamihira quote. It shows an extension of the microcosm idea to
the planets, keeping the mind-moon pair (but not the eye-sun one). The mind-moon pair is
one of the most stable of these pairings, as well as the least explicable.

Verbal similarities can be very profound, especially in the Brahmanas. But in this case I'm not
sure there is much verbal similarity: in RV 10.90.13 the words are manas and candramas (in
Brhadaranyaka Up. 3.2.13 it's manas and candra, which is even less similar). It's not a
similarity of the same order as indra-indha (Satapatha Br; Brh Up 4.2.2). That made
me wonder whether Renou, in invoking word-play as an explanation, was misled by his
knowledge of the Indo-European cognates of Skt mas and manas.

With best wishes,


On 28 Jul 2016 at 7:45, Valerie Roebuck wrote:

I think it's meant to be a bit more profound than a verbal similarity - though of course these
were widely thought not to be merely coincidental. We find the same correspondence in
astrological texts, too, e.g. in Varahamihira's Bhajjataka, Chapter 2 v. 1a, where the seven
planets of the ancient world are placed on the macrocosmic man of Time.

kalatma dina-krn manas tuhinagu satva kujo jño vaco jivo jñana-sukhe sita´s ca madano
dukha dine´satmaja  /

The Sun ['Day-maker'] is the self (atman) of Time, the Moon ['Cool-rayed'] his mind (manas),
Mars ['Earth-born'] his courage, Mercury ['Knower'] his speech, Jupiter ['Life'] his knowledge
and happiness, Venus ['White One'] his desire, and Saturn ['Son of the Lord of Day'] his

The Moon has a very important place in Indian astrology, but here perhaps it is regarded as
representing a less profound (because more changeable?) level of being than the Sun.

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK

    On 28 Jul 2016, at 06:32, naresh keerthi <> wrote:

    Renou Etudes Vediques vol XVI p. 150 says it's a play on words.

    I don't have access to this source, but is it possible that this conjecture is based on the
    similarity of mati = mind [Sanskrit, but also used in Tamil] and mati = moon in Tamil?

    Naresh Keerthi
    National Institute of Advanced Studies,


    Message: 2
    Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 10:47:45 +0100
    Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mind and moon
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    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

    Can anyone explain why the mind is the microcosmic counterpart of the moon?
    correspondence appears in Rgveda 10.90.13 and in countless passages of the
    and Upanisads, but it's not obvious like breath and wind.

    Renou ?tudes V?diques vol XVI p. 150 says it's a play on words. I find that hard
    to accept,
    because the words (candra-mas and manas) are not very similar (they are in
    Latin, but the
    sages didn't have access to an Indo-European comparative dictionary).

    Could the connection be through soma (often linked or identified with the moon),
    since the
    mind is called a pavitra through which poetic insight (dhI) flows and becomes
    (Gonda Vision of the Vedic Poets pp. 278-9)?

    Or is it that the mind, like the moon, is constant though its content continually

    Dermot Killingley
    9, Rectory Drive,
    Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
    Phone (0191) 285 8053

    INDOLOGY mailing list (messages to the list's managing committee) (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053

INDOLOGY mailing list (messages to the list's managing committee) (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)