[INDOLOGY] From the Mahabharata

Tue Apr 26 09:18:49 UTC 2016

Dear Nagaraj,

Motive and method.

motive: atithi-seva ---> if selfless, ultimate Liberation; method:
bubhukSAjaya (bubhukSA with its load of feelings/emotions - put in there in
the process of its formation as a *desiderative* derivate)

Would *THAT* make sense?

Artur

2016-04-26 10:42 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:

> >The question is: *how *do you keep your hunger under control?
>
> --- Sri Nityanandji has already said:
>
> Therefore, to me the essence of “conquering hunger” in this context is not
> abstention from food even when the body is hungry, rather it refers to the
> Brāhmaṇa family's [one-time] act of upholding atithi-dharma and feeding a
> hungry guest even though the family was itself hungry. The host Brāhmaṇa
> and his family conquered their own hunger to satisfy the hunger of a guest.
>
> So
> *how *do you keep your hunger under control?
>
> -- by prioritizing some other motive /drive than hunger, hunger gets
> automatically controlled.
>
> A student skipping his meal on account of being absorbed in his
> book-reading in the library, a scientist not feeling his hunger on account
> of his immersion in his experiment in the laboratory can be said to have
> bubukShaajaya.
>
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> Dear Nagaraj,
>>
>>
>> >> It means *one who keeps one's hunger under one's control* .
>>
>> The question is: *how *do you keep your hunger under control?
>>
>> To my mind (basing on my certainly simplistic concept of my own mental
>> processes) - by taking control of, by overcoming the emotions/feelings
>> generated by the sensation of hunger, that is - the physiological need to
>> eat food.
>>
>> And these emotions/feelings are - not necessarily distinctly - expressed
>>  by the poet's choice of a desiderative derivate form.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>>
>> Greg O'Toole said somewhere: "What is necessary is that the terms and
>> other variables in a conversation be clarified and agreed on by *all
>> participants in this conversation*."
>>
>> Extending my  sincere gratitude to all participants in *this here*
>> conversation. Learning has no end.
>>
>> Artur Karp
>>
>> Warszawa
>> Polska
>>
>> 2016-04-26 8:59 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu sa svargaṃ jayate dhruvam
>>>
>>> bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu  does not mean one who loses hunger or one who
>>> can stay without being hungry. It means one who keeps one's hunger under
>>> one's control .
>>>
>>> kṣudhā nirṇudati prajñāṃ dharmyāṃ buddhiṃ vyapohati
>>>
>>>
>>> means uncontrolled hunger destroys one's wisdom and drives off one's
>>> righteous understanding.
>>>
>>> Issue is bubhukShaajaya and not bubhukShaateevrataa or
>>> bubhukShaasaumyataa.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Masterly exposition.
>>>>
>>>> But (I already used this twice, sorry), there is always a but lurking
>>>> there, somewhere behind the screens.
>>>>
>>>> How do you measure 'desire'?
>>>>
>>>> To my uneducated (no Amarakoṣa in the list of necessary readings) mind
>>>> the desiderative form itself guarantees the connection between the
>>>> word and the idea of desire.
>>>>
>>>>  'lipsā' - ‘labdhum *icchā*’ is self-explanatory.
>>>>
>>>> How intense the desire is - it's all a matter of context.
>>>>
>>>> Let me guess: in certain contexts 'lipsā' could be used to describe a
>>>> momentary, inconsequential wish, to obtain something without explicit
>>>> effort ; in other contexts, perhaps, the wish to obtain something of
>>>> lasting value, the act itself coldly planned for.
>>>>
>>>> Same for ‘bubhukṣā’ - intensity of the desire depends on the context.
>>>>
>>>> Who *bubhukṣāṃ jayate*  - that person overcomes the feelings, the
>>>> emotions that are linked with enjoyment of food. In our example - quite
>>>> strong emotions, considering "the season of great difficulty".
>>>>
>>>> "The choice of food metaphor in the context of bliss hails from a
>>>> tradition going back to Upaniṣads, where the experience of bliss was
>>>> linked with enjoyment of food" [V. Aklujkar, *Sharing the Divine Feast*,
>>>> in: R.S. Khare (ed.), *The Eternal Food: Gastronomic Ideas and
>>>> Experience of Hindus and Buddhists*, 1992, p. 99]
>>>>
>>>> The epic story tellers  do not want their heroes to be perfect, and go
>>>> around trying to do things in the "grammatick" way; they supply them with
>>>> words - to use as they see fit, not always properly; their heroes act, they
>>>> are full of, more often than not, only dimly felt emotions, and they act on
>>>> them, and are known to commit mistakes.
>>>>
>>>> And that is why we like them, and want to hear more about them, again
>>>> and again
>>>>
>>>> Let them have their emotions.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Artur
>>>>
>>>> 2016-04-26 3:37 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25 April 2016 at 18:58, Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The desiderative at times is used to indicate strong desire. Example:
>>>>>> desiderative forms of labh — lipsu, lipsA. In MW, this can mean the simple
>>>>>> desire to gain or obtain, or “longing for”. To long — to have “a strong
>>>>>> wish or desire.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Howard
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Monier Williams has errors. An example is meaning of the gavī as an
>>>>> “independent word” for speech and the citation of Śiśupālavadha 2-68 which
>>>>> is incorrect. In this case (‘lipsā’) there is no precise citation also.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The etymology (yoga) of ‘lipsā’ (‘labdhum icchā’, labh + san + a + ṭāp)
>>>>> does not suggest any intensity in the desire. If one wants to go for usage
>>>>> (rūḍhi), it is better to cross-check with Sanskrit Koṣa-s and
>>>>> attested usages than take M-W for granted.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As per Amarakoṣa (1-7-27,28), there is a clear distinction between
>>>>> ‘lipsā’ which is listed with words for desire, and ‘lālasā’ which is
>>>>> explained as intense desire or longing (grammar would confirm this):
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ……………………………………………………………. dohadam
>>>>>
>>>>> icchā kāṅkṣā spṛhehā tṛḍvāñchā lipsā manorathaḥ
>>>>>
>>>>> kāmo’bhilāṣastarṣaśca *so’tyarthaṃ lālasā dvayoḥ*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Vyākhyāsudhā on above verses explains that the first twelve are
>>>>> synonyms of ‘icchā’ (and also ) and the word ‘lālasā’ is a synonym of
>>>>> ‘atiprīti’
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If any other authentic Koṣa or commentary on a Kāvya usage confirms
>>>>> that ‘longing’ or ‘intense desire’ is also a meaning of ‘lipsā’, M-W can be
>>>>> accepted. Same for ‘bubhukṣā’.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>

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