[INDOLOGY] From the Mahabharata

Tue Apr 26 16:28:32 UTC 2016

Sorry for the delay. I was teaching.

Yes, in a way.

Atithi seva ---> Svarga with karmaphalaakaankshaa / moksha with
karmaphalasanyaasa

path/precondition ----- bubhukShaajaya.

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> Dear Nagaraj,
>
> Motive and method.
>
> motive: atithi-seva ---> if selfless, ultimate Liberation; method:
> bubhukSAjaya (bubhukSA with its load of feelings/emotions - put in there in
> the process of its formation as a *desiderative* derivate)
>
> Would *THAT* make sense?
>
> Artur
>
> 2016-04-26 10:42 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>
>> >The question is: *how *do you keep your hunger under control?
>>
>> --- Sri Nityanandji has already said:
>>
>> Therefore, to me the essence of “conquering hunger” in this context is
>> not abstention from food even when the body is hungry, rather it refers to
>> the Brāhmaṇa family's [one-time] act of upholding atithi-dharma and feeding
>> a hungry guest even though the family was itself hungry. The host Brāhmaṇa
>> and his family conquered their own hunger to satisfy the hunger of a guest.
>>
>> So
>> *how *do you keep your hunger under control?
>>
>> -- by prioritizing some other motive /drive than hunger, hunger gets
>> automatically controlled.
>>
>> A student skipping his meal on account of being absorbed in his
>> book-reading in the library, a scientist not feeling his hunger on account
>> of his immersion in his experiment in the laboratory can be said to have
>> bubukShaajaya.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Nagaraj,
>>>
>>>
>>> >> It means *one who keeps one's hunger under one's control* .
>>>
>>> The question is: *how *do you keep your hunger under control?
>>>
>>> To my mind (basing on my certainly simplistic concept of my own mental
>>> processes) - by taking control of, by overcoming the emotions/feelings
>>> generated by the sensation of hunger, that is - the physiological need to
>>> eat food.
>>>
>>> And these emotions/feelings are - not necessarily distinctly - expressed
>>>  by the poet's choice of a desiderative derivate form.
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Greg O'Toole said somewhere: "What is necessary is that the terms and
>>> other variables in a conversation be clarified and agreed on by *all
>>> participants in this conversation*."
>>>
>>> Extending my  sincere gratitude to all participants in *this here*
>>> conversation. Learning has no end.
>>>
>>> Artur Karp
>>>
>>> Warszawa
>>> Polska
>>>
>>> 2016-04-26 8:59 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu sa svargaṃ jayate dhruvam
>>>>
>>>> bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu  does not mean one who loses hunger or one who
>>>> can stay without being hungry. It means one who keeps one's hunger under
>>>> one's control .
>>>>
>>>> kṣudhā nirṇudati prajñāṃ dharmyāṃ buddhiṃ vyapohati
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> means uncontrolled hunger destroys one's wisdom and drives off one's
>>>> righteous understanding.
>>>>
>>>> Issue is bubhukShaajaya and not bubhukShaateevrataa or
>>>> bubhukShaasaumyataa.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Masterly exposition.
>>>>>
>>>>> But (I already used this twice, sorry), there is always a but lurking
>>>>> there, somewhere behind the screens.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you measure 'desire'?
>>>>>
>>>>> To my uneducated (no Amarakoṣa in the list of necessary readings)
>>>>> mind the desiderative form itself guarantees the connection between
>>>>> the word and the idea of desire.
>>>>>
>>>>>  'lipsā' - ‘labdhum *icchā*’ is self-explanatory.
>>>>>
>>>>> How intense the desire is - it's all a matter of context.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me guess: in certain contexts 'lipsā' could be used to describe a
>>>>> momentary, inconsequential wish, to obtain something without explicit
>>>>> effort ; in other contexts, perhaps, the wish to obtain something of
>>>>> lasting value, the act itself coldly planned for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same for ‘bubhukṣā’ - intensity of the desire depends on the context.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who *bubhukṣāṃ jayate*  - that person overcomes the feelings, the
>>>>> emotions that are linked with enjoyment of food. In our example - quite
>>>>> strong emotions, considering "the season of great difficulty".
>>>>>
>>>>> "The choice of food metaphor in the context of bliss hails from a
>>>>> tradition going back to Upaniṣads, where the experience of bliss was
>>>>> linked with enjoyment of food" [V. Aklujkar, *Sharing the Divine
>>>>> Feast*, in: R.S. Khare (ed.), *The Eternal Food: Gastronomic Ideas
>>>>> and Experience of Hindus and Buddhists*, 1992, p. 99]
>>>>>
>>>>> The epic story tellers  do not want their heroes to be perfect, and go
>>>>> around trying to do things in the "grammatick" way; they supply them with
>>>>> words - to use as they see fit, not always properly; their heroes act, they
>>>>> are full of, more often than not, only dimly felt emotions, and they act on
>>>>> them, and are known to commit mistakes.
>>>>>
>>>>> And that is why we like them, and want to hear more about them, again
>>>>> and again
>>>>>
>>>>> Let them have their emotions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Artur
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-04-26 3:37 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25 April 2016 at 18:58, Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The desiderative at times is used to indicate strong desire.
>>>>>>> Example: desiderative forms of labh — lipsu, lipsA. In MW, this can mean
>>>>>>> the simple desire to gain or obtain, or “longing for”. To long — to have “a
>>>>>>> strong wish or desire.”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Howard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Monier Williams has errors. An example is meaning of the gavī as an
>>>>>> “independent word” for speech and the citation of Śiśupālavadha 2-68 which
>>>>>> is incorrect. In this case (‘lipsā’) there is no precise citation also.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The etymology (yoga) of ‘lipsā’ (‘labdhum icchā’, labh + san + a +
>>>>>> ṭāp) does not suggest any intensity in the desire. If one wants to
>>>>>> go for usage (rūḍhi), it is better to cross-check with Sanskrit
>>>>>> Koṣa-s and attested usages than take M-W for granted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As per Amarakoṣa (1-7-27,28), there is a clear distinction between
>>>>>> ‘lipsā’ which is listed with words for desire, and ‘lālasā’ which is
>>>>>> explained as intense desire or longing (grammar would confirm this):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ……………………………………………………………. dohadam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> icchā kāṅkṣā spṛhehā tṛḍvāñchā lipsā manorathaḥ
>>>>>>
>>>>>> kāmo’bhilāṣastarṣaśca *so’tyarthaṃ lālasā dvayoḥ*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Vyākhyāsudhā on above verses explains that the first twelve are
>>>>>> synonyms of ‘icchā’ (and also ) and the word ‘lālasā’ is a synonym of
>>>>>> ‘atiprīti’
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If any other authentic Koṣa or commentary on a Kāvya usage confirms
>>>>>> that ‘longing’ or ‘intense desire’ is also a meaning of ‘lipsā’, M-W can be
>>>>>> accepted. Same for ‘bubhukṣā’.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>
>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>
>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>
>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>
>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/attachments/20160426/386dfd27/attachment.htm>