[INDOLOGY] From the Mahabharata

Tue Apr 26 08:42:04 UTC 2016

>The question is: *how *do you keep your hunger under control?

--- Sri Nityanandji has already said:

Therefore, to me the essence of “conquering hunger” in this context is not
abstention from food even when the body is hungry, rather it refers to the
Brāhmaṇa family's [one-time] act of upholding atithi-dharma and feeding a
hungry guest even though the family was itself hungry. The host Brāhmaṇa
and his family conquered their own hunger to satisfy the hunger of a guest.

So
*how *do you keep your hunger under control?

-- by prioritizing some other motive /drive than hunger, hunger gets
automatically controlled.

A student skipping his meal on account of being absorbed in his
book-reading in the library, a scientist not feeling his hunger on account
of his immersion in his experiment in the laboratory can be said to have
bubukShaajaya.

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> Dear Nagaraj,
>
>
> >> It means *one who keeps one's hunger under one's control* .
>
> The question is: *how *do you keep your hunger under control?
>
> To my mind (basing on my certainly simplistic concept of my own mental
> processes) - by taking control of, by overcoming the emotions/feelings
> generated by the sensation of hunger, that is - the physiological need to
> eat food.
>
> And these emotions/feelings are - not necessarily distinctly - expressed
>  by the poet's choice of a desiderative derivate form.
>
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> Greg O'Toole said somewhere: "What is necessary is that the terms and
> other variables in a conversation be clarified and agreed on by *all
> participants in this conversation*."
>
> Extending my  sincere gratitude to all participants in *this here*
> conversation. Learning has no end.
>
> Artur Karp
>
> Warszawa
> Polska
>
> 2016-04-26 8:59 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>
>> bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu sa svargaṃ jayate dhruvam
>>
>> bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu  does not mean one who loses hunger or one who
>> can stay without being hungry. It means one who keeps one's hunger under
>> one's control .
>>
>> kṣudhā nirṇudati prajñāṃ dharmyāṃ buddhiṃ vyapohati
>>
>>
>> means uncontrolled hunger destroys one's wisdom and drives off one's
>> righteous understanding.
>>
>> Issue is bubhukShaajaya and not bubhukShaateevrataa or
>> bubhukShaasaumyataa.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> Masterly exposition.
>>>
>>> But (I already used this twice, sorry), there is always a but lurking
>>> there, somewhere behind the screens.
>>>
>>> How do you measure 'desire'?
>>>
>>> To my uneducated (no Amarakoṣa in the list of necessary readings) mind
>>> the desiderative form itself guarantees the connection between the word
>>> and the idea of desire.
>>>
>>>  'lipsā' - ‘labdhum *icchā*’ is self-explanatory.
>>>
>>> How intense the desire is - it's all a matter of context.
>>>
>>> Let me guess: in certain contexts 'lipsā' could be used to describe a
>>> momentary, inconsequential wish, to obtain something without explicit
>>> effort ; in other contexts, perhaps, the wish to obtain something of
>>> lasting value, the act itself coldly planned for.
>>>
>>> Same for ‘bubhukṣā’ - intensity of the desire depends on the context.
>>>
>>> Who *bubhukṣāṃ jayate*  - that person overcomes the feelings, the
>>> emotions that are linked with enjoyment of food. In our example - quite
>>> strong emotions, considering "the season of great difficulty".
>>>
>>> "The choice of food metaphor in the context of bliss hails from a
>>> tradition going back to Upaniṣads, where the experience of bliss was
>>> linked with enjoyment of food" [V. Aklujkar, *Sharing the Divine Feast*,
>>> in: R.S. Khare (ed.), *The Eternal Food: Gastronomic Ideas and
>>> Experience of Hindus and Buddhists*, 1992, p. 99]
>>>
>>> The epic story tellers  do not want their heroes to be perfect, and go
>>> around trying to do things in the "grammatick" way; they supply them with
>>> words - to use as they see fit, not always properly; their heroes act, they
>>> are full of, more often than not, only dimly felt emotions, and they act on
>>> them, and are known to commit mistakes.
>>>
>>> And that is why we like them, and want to hear more about them, again
>>> and again
>>>
>>> Let them have their emotions.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Artur
>>>
>>> 2016-04-26 3:37 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 25 April 2016 at 18:58, Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The desiderative at times is used to indicate strong desire. Example:
>>>>> desiderative forms of labh — lipsu, lipsA. In MW, this can mean the simple
>>>>> desire to gain or obtain, or “longing for”. To long — to have “a strong
>>>>> wish or desire.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Howard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Monier Williams has errors. An example is meaning of the gavī as an
>>>> “independent word” for speech and the citation of Śiśupālavadha 2-68 which
>>>> is incorrect. In this case (‘lipsā’) there is no precise citation also.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The etymology (yoga) of ‘lipsā’ (‘labdhum icchā’, labh + san + a + ṭāp)
>>>> does not suggest any intensity in the desire. If one wants to go for usage
>>>> (rūḍhi), it is better to cross-check with Sanskrit Koṣa-s and attested
>>>> usages than take M-W for granted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As per Amarakoṣa (1-7-27,28), there is a clear distinction between
>>>> ‘lipsā’ which is listed with words for desire, and ‘lālasā’ which is
>>>> explained as intense desire or longing (grammar would confirm this):
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ……………………………………………………………. dohadam
>>>>
>>>> icchā kāṅkṣā spṛhehā tṛḍvāñchā lipsā manorathaḥ
>>>>
>>>> kāmo’bhilāṣastarṣaśca *so’tyarthaṃ lālasā dvayoḥ*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Vyākhyāsudhā on above verses explains that the first twelve are
>>>> synonyms of ‘icchā’ (and also ) and the word ‘lālasā’ is a synonym of
>>>> ‘atiprīti’
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If any other authentic Koṣa or commentary on a Kāvya usage confirms
>>>> that ‘longing’ or ‘intense desire’ is also a meaning of ‘lipsā’, M-W can be
>>>> accepted. Same for ‘bubhukṣā’.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

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