[INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyming in Dravidian

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Dr Jean- Luc Chevillard,

Your "This is not true!" probably is to my

>4. For a Dravidian '*origin*' of SSR to be considered the following are
the hurdles:

>a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and the SSR of
Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or in cases such
as gOpIgItam of >Sanskrit, is inter-line.

Thanks for the examples of inter-line SSR from tolkAppiyam.

Does your

> If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil literature in order
to support your statement, please do

refer to my


> SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line ?

Your position with regard to this is

>I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent

So you are asking me to provide me to provide massive number of examples
for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. Did I get you right?

-No. I am not in a position right now to provide massive number of examples
for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. I need time to browse
through the corpus I have to see if this is true with ancient Tamil
literature.

All that I can tell you readily with authenticity is that in Telugu, which
is one of the Dravidian languages, intra-line SSR is part of the rules of
all the native verse meters but as an alternative to intra-line FSR. The
rule of line-break is based on feet count unlike the syllable count in
Sanskrit meters. Since it is part of rule, naturally there are massive
number of examples in Telugu for intra-line SSR , spread all over the
Telugu verse literature employing native Telugu meters.

Sri Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan in

http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-July/041805.html

says,

The second syllable rhyme can also occur within a line in different
patterns. Assuming there are are four feet in a line, the second-syllable
rhyming can occur in different patterns such as between feet 1 and 2; 1 and
3; 1 and 4; 1, 2, and 3; 1, 3, and 4; 1, 2, and 4; and 1, 2, 3, and 4.

So the Tamil situation is similar to Telugu at least in so far as 'The rule
of line-break is based on feet count unlike the syllable count in Sanskrit
meters'.

If inter-line SSR is so massive in ancient Tamil literature, origin of the
inter-line SSR in Sanskrit borrowed Telugu verse meters can probably be
traced to an older Dravidian situation. That becoming a strict rule
for Sanskrit
borrowed Telugu verse meters could be specific to Telugu prosody.

If inter-line SSR in ancient Tamil lyrical literature is proved to be a
regular lyrical meter device, the gOpIgItam's SSR can safely get connected
to a Tamil or Dravidian origin.

Quantity rules are rigidly ingrained in Sanskrit meters; so one may explain
the quantity correspondence of initial vowel in the SSR of gOpIgItam in
terms of the rigidly ingrained vowel quantity pattern rules in Sanskrit
meters. That is another problem area in the topic.







On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard <
jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrote:

> Dear Professor Paturi,
>
> This is not true!
>
> SSR seems to happen frequently as "inter-line" in Ancient Tamil literature.
>
> I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent
>
> See the characterizations (taken from the Tolkāppiyam), which I gave
> yesterday in:
>
> "
> http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-August/041916.html
> "
>
> See also for instance, this nice example from the Tolkāppiyam's
> characterization of the "verb" (viṉai).
>
> TC195i
> viṉaiyeṉap paṭuvatu vēṟṟumai koḷḷātu
> niṉaiyuṅ kālaik kālamoṭu tōṉṟum.
>
> We have etukai between "viṉai" and "niṉaiyum", which are both at the
> beginning of a line
>
> (I could provide similar examples if you are not convinced ...)
>
> Part of the problem lies in the fact that, people tend to view the rules
> of ancient Tamil literature through the lenses of medieval treatises such
> as the Yāpparuṅkalam and Yāpparuṅkalak kārikai
> (which provide a very rich terminology for many marginal examples of
> intra-line SSR)
>
>
> If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil literature in order
> to support your statement, please do
>
> Your with every good wish
>
>
> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS)
>
>
>
> "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard"
>
> "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub"
>
> "https://twitter.com/JLC1956"
>
>
>
> On 09/08/2015 16:02, Nagaraj Paturi wrote:
>
>> a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and the SSR
>> of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or in cases
>> such as gOpIgItam of Sanskrit, is inter-line.
>>
>
>


-- 
Prof.Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad-500044


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