Re: [INDOLOGY] Patañjali's syntax

[Dominik Wujastyk]

I'm still nagging at what Kaiyaṭa means by "karmaṇi ghañ".  My present best
idea is that he's invoking P.3.3.19 *akartari ca kārake saṃjñāyām*.  This
implies an origin from *mlich*, which is odd, but can be ignored, I think.
So "*mleccha*" is the recipient of the action.  This may explain the future
pass. part. that Nāgeśa uses, *nindyā* "to *be* blamed" (passive).  *Mleccha
* = "despicable", i.e., it is the *recipient* of criticism.  And P.3.3.19
makes "*mleccha*" a *saṃjñā*, which is right too. (I don't believe that P.
meant *ca* to negate *saṃjñāyām*, even if this *ghañ* is desired in non-*
saṃjñā* cases.)

I hope someone can improve on this :-)

Dominik





On 31 October 2013 10:24, Adriano Aprigliano <aprigliano at usp.br> wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> Since we seem to have reached a safe explanation for the syntactical
> problem discussed, I write this one just for thanking you all for the
> suggestions.
>
> best wishes
> Adriano
>
>
>    *Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano*
> Área de Língua e Literatura Latina****
> ** **
> Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ciências Humanas****
> Universidade de São Paulo****
> São Paulo, Brasil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Em 30/10/2013, às 20:16, Hock, Hans Henrich escreveu:
>
>  Thanks for this, Tim. I deal with this issue in some detail in my
> contribution to the just-published proceedings volume of the Veda Section,
> 15th World Sanskrit Conference--copies available on request.
>
>  All the best,
>
>  Hans
>
>
>  On 30 Oct 2013, at 16:59, Lubin, Tim wrote:
>
>   In re this message of Andrew's, I differ strongly on the middle bullet
> point below (scroll down).  I tracked this carefully a number of years ago,
> and though I don't have hard numbers, I would say that the inverse is the
> case at least 90%  of the time or more: vai marks the predicate in a
> nominal sentence, i.e., X vai Y = Y is X.
>
>  e.g., uṣā vā aśvasya medhyasya śiraḥ BĀU 1.1.1
> The head of the sacrificial horse, clearly, is the dawn.  (Olivelle tr.;
> Hume got it backwards!)
>
>  That the horse and not the dawn is the topic becomes clear further on in
> the passage, where the syntax shifts:
>
>  yad vijṛmbhate tad vidyotate…
> When it yawns, lightning flashes...
>
>  I don't have time to multiply examples, but if checked it will bear out.
>
>  In the case of the construction under discussion, it seems to me that
> the formula "etad- yad Y" is simply an idiomatic expansion of "Y" marked as
> topic.
>  So Prof. Bhattacharya's rendering of mleccho ha vā eṣa yad
> apaśabdaḥ ("For a corrupt word is indeed a barbarian") gets things in the
> right order (as well as capturing the sense of the statement as a whole).
>
>  Tim
>
>
>   Em 30/10/2013, às 16:53, Andrew Ollett escreveu:
>
>  Dear Adriano,
>
>  I am by no means an expert, but I would agree with Dr. Hock about
> "invariable yat" (discussed by Gonda in Lingua 4:1ff.) for the following
> reasons:
>
>    - I take "ha" to be a causal particle (= yasmāt, hence yat != yasmāt);
>    - I take "vai" to mark the topic of the sentence (usually equivalent
>    to the subject: in most nominal sentences, the subject comes AFTER the
>    predicate, i.e., X Y should be translated as "Y is X," but X-vai Y should
>    usually be translated as "X is Y");
>    - hence "for this mleccha (viz., 'mleccha' in the prohibition "na
>    mlecchitavai") in fact means (yat) 'a bad word'"
>
> Andrew
>
>      ------------------------------
>  Timothy Lubin
> Professor of Religion
> Washington and Lee University
> Lexington, Virginia 24450
>
>  http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint
> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949
>
>
>
>
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