Rajarshi Banerjee rajarshi.banerjee at SMGINC.COM
Sat Mar 18 03:12:39 UTC 2000

>>MW: Why is it that of all of these and the ensuing movements, just one,
>>"Aryan"one (=Indo-Aryan, proto-Vedic), is NOT allowed these days?

RB> Altogether I think MW is spending too much time writing parodies and
acquiring "a fan". Please note I have no indological rep to protect. I just
found the above statement whiney.

MW> But that would be a Near Eastern Aryans' INVASION into India, simply
horrible!!! Just the kind of fact RB denies above....

RB> I dont deny anything neither do I believe much. Has MW heard healthy
scepticism ... confidence intervals, error bars? It would appear that some
indologists are burdened with a belief system. Why make fun of vimAnas when
you yourself belive in chariots armies used to herd cows.

MW> "Afghans" before their time, of course, and simply because "they" were
in front of, and behind  the two major (Khyber, Bolan) and many smaller
passes leading into South Asia. Areas the RV speaks about.

RB> Please Dr W. you may call them afghans if you like. There are regional
variations in the material culture of norhtwest india but no archeological
evidence for cultural diffusion or spread be it cemetry H or BMAC or IVC
etc... Ofcourse there is a limited migration of people from the IVC region
to the east and a shift to more rural life which may predate the composition
of the rig veda.

All immigrants/invaders to india did not come through the bolan pass. We all
know about the islamization of sindh and early islamic raids into gujarat.

MW> The linguistic evidence of the RV, with its substrate (missing in
related Old Iranian) is evidence enough that the people in the
Panjab/Harappans did *not* speak IA but the substrate language(s). Anyhow,
IA  is Indo_Iranian, which is part of eastern Indo-European, which is part
of Proto-IE. All spoken outside S. Asia (see immediately).

The percentage of IE/Indo_Iranian words to non-IE words in the RV is 96% : 4
Any comment necessary?

RB> Such loans are also seen in other ancient IE languages like hittite, Was
there ever a pure unadulterated PIE language if I understand correctly it is
a theoretical construct. All real languages have loan words. What is the
purest IE language is it avestan??

MW> In natural science, biology for example, the later branch on a "family
is always innovative and by its very nature, later, than the "trunk": in
case, Vedic is innovative, not the "trunk", IIr/IE.

RB> I have a genuine problem visualizing the evolution of voiced aspirates
from murmurred stops or whatever of PIE. what about the increase in the the
number of basic phonemes from PIE to sanskrit - three basic typs of stops
branch into four. Isnt this an unnatural innovation not seen in any other
siblings? I am no linguist and would appreciate any pointers perhaps these
are easy leaps(of faith?) for linguists but I am not one and would
appreciate pointers as to how linguists treat such issues. Does any one talk
of reflexes of hittite laryngeals in sankrit or vedic? It looks like
linguists are busy figuring out the evolution of european languages but
neglecting problems in IIr and IA. Can indic have been an early branch of

RB >Deciphering linear B pushed back greek by almost a millenia.

MW> A "millenia"??  People speaking about language should at least check
ENGLISH dictionary and find out that "millennia" (sic) is the plural of
"millennium" (etymology needed?). Well, I won't charge you even one Rupees
for that.

RB>To continue in the same bitchy vein, that would be "one Rupee" not
Rupees. I won't charge you even one dollar for that.

RB> Yes I admit that I did not know about early dates for homer but was
thinking of classical greece. Maybe I should recall MW's earlier sentence
that "the sanchi chariots occur SlIGHTLY later than the vedic period" or
something to that effect. Vedic age being 1700-1200 BC according to MW and
sanchi scultures from 100 AD(if I recall correctly).

MW> Natural Scientists please comment on this new aspect of number theory!
RB> Statisticians please note this extreme stretch in fuzzy logic!

MW> This is about as much as I will write about this and similar messages,
if some of their originators seem to think that constant assault will bring
down resistance and carry the day: hurray  to the "paradigm change!"
Actually, I wouldn't have bothered and would not even
have written these  messages if I were not occupied right now with
rewriting a paper on the various "Out of India" models, and if I were not
collecting  materials, --- conveniently supplied by non sequitur messages
such as the one by RB.

RB> Wow never thought this would be called an assault. Probably all this
reading is having its psychological toll on MW.

MW> Well, I will presently return to the favorite attitude of my colleagues
(and myself!), apparent by their collective thundering silence, Cheers

RB> Good I get to have the last word......

MW> Even my recent "great discoveries" parody could  not be as confused as
following post by R. Banerjee.

Let us analyze it, as a specimen,  line by
line, even if this  is a complete waist of time, like many of the recent

RB> I also dont have time to "WAIST", in fact I have a vimAna to catch and a
chariot to rent ...

regards RB

More information about the INDOLOGY mailing list