[INDOLOGY] Iconography of Brahmā

[Paul Thomas]

Dear Fabrice,

Thanks, I didn't know that a *pātram* would also indicate an ascetic.  I
still wonder what kind of vessel this is . .   .

Yes I now remember I have actually asked about the *śūciḥ* in his hand in
this list some time ago, but had forgotten!  At that time someone also
suggested that it could indicate a *mudrā*.  This is unlikely however,
because the passages in question are simply lists of implements held in the
hands of deities; e.g. *Kālacakratantrta *4.34cd: *śūciś cāpy akṣasūtraṃ
bhavati karatale śūlabāṇaṃ ca pāśo ratnaṃ parśuś ca vajraṃ bhavati haritale
cakradaṇḍaś ca savye*. It is clear that every item in these lists is an
object held in the hand, and not a *mudrā*, and unfortunately so far I have
not seen any elaboration on them in the text.

Maybe it simply means "needle."

Yours,
Paul

On Mon, Jul 13, 2026 at 7:50 PM Fabrice Duvinage <fabrice.duvinage at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Sir,
>
> The  *pātram* and the  *kamaṇḍaluḥ* show Brahma as an ascetic, a
> mendicant.  *sūciḥ*  could be meant as a *mudr**ā*  . It indicates 'One
> Supreme Brahman’ in the Natyashastra. What does the text exactly say?
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Fabrice Duvinage
> Fabrice Duvinage
> 52, rue Clémenceau
> 57360 Amnéville
> 0652825128
> https://uni-tuebingen.academia.edu/FDuvinage
>
>
> Le lun. 13 juil. 2026 à 14:34, Paul Thomas via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> a écrit :
>
>> Hello Colleagues,
>>
>> I have three questions about the iconography of Brahmā.
>>
>> First, in the Buddhist *Laghukālacakratantra *and its commentary the
>> *Vimalaprabhā*, Brahmā and Brahmāṇī are consistently described as
>> holding a *śūciḥ *in one of their hands.  This is translated by the
>> Tibetans as *khab*, which means "needle," so they, possibly with the
>> input of Indian scholars, understood it as *sūciḥ* (all the mss. I am
>> using are Bengali or Nepalese).  Along with the editors of these texts, I
>> wonder if this is some kind of obscure form of *sruk*, as that makes
>> sense as something Brahmā or Brahmāṇī would be holding.  I'm not sure
>> why they would be holding a needle.
>>
>> Second, they are also described as holding a *pātram*.  What kind of
>> vessel would this be, a platter of some kind?  Would it contain anything?
>> Why carry an empty vessel?
>>
>> Finally—and this one should be easy—they are of course also sometimes
>> described as carrying a *kamaṇḍaluḥ*/*kuṇḍī*/*kuṇḍikā*.  Thus is of
>> course more well-known.  I have seen this translated as "water-pot" or
>> "water-pitcher," but was this vessel really only intended to carry water?
>> Also is it more of a "pitcher" or "flask" (*kalaśaḥ*), or is it
>> something else?
>>
>> Thank you and best wishes,
>> Paul
>>
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