[INDOLOGY] Sanskrit perfect first person

Wed Oct 1 20:48:01 UTC 2025

Also good is Paul Dundas' translation of ŚPV 11.39 (in the Murty Classical
Library series):

"Apparently when I was drunk I flattered him a great
deal, as if I were a woman of the world. A demure
girl, sobering up in the morning, has heard from her
friends about the night's events and cringes with
embarrassment to think of them."

I like "apparently" for *kila,* "cringes with embarrassment" for *vrīḍitam*,
and "demure girl" for *mugdhavadhvā.*

Rich Salomon

On Wed, Oct 1, 2025 at 11:48 AM George L Hart via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Thanks to all of you for the help. I remembered the Sisupala quote vaguely
> (from 55 years ago) — at least my memory is better than ChatGPT. At the end
> of his life, Hank Heifetz was translating the Sisupala, and he had final
> versions of virtually all of it. Unfortunately, he died before finishing
> the notes and totally polishing his translations. It strikes me that it
> would be useful if his work could be published or made available on the
> internet — I could ask his children and see if they would agree to posting
> it. Here is his very nice translation of 11.39:
>
> “ When I was drunk, I must have chattered away
> before that man, I must have spoken
> words meant to entice him just as if I were
> a grown and bolder woman,”
> said a young girl, pondering with her friends
> what had happened to her at night
> as the day had dawned and with her drunkenness
> gone, she felt a sense of shame.
>
> On Oct 1, 2025, at 1:46 PM, Raffaele Torella <raffaele.torella at uniroma1.it>
> wrote:
>
> An article of mine, “Devī uvāca, or the theology of the perfect tense”,
> might be of some interest to you.
> <s200_raffaele.torella.jpeg>
>
> Devī uvāca, or the theology of the perfect tense
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.academia.edu/4610814/Dev**A_uv**Aca_or_the_theology_of_the_perfect_tense__;xKvEgQ!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!m50oYIP-41rn_mZX5kE3luktPO6AI9MVnH2jkrDWidYWE8O1AgFw_Pw0GTCRyzXCgnlthGG2KjSKrMicHlgnFRcc5g$>
> academia.edu
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.academia.edu/4610814/Dev**A_uv**Aca_or_the_theology_of_the_perfect_tense__;xKvEgQ!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!m50oYIP-41rn_mZX5kE3luktPO6AI9MVnH2jkrDWidYWE8O1AgFw_Pw0GTCRyzXCgnlthGG2KjSKrMicHlgnFRcc5g$>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.academia.edu/4610814/Dev**A_uv**Aca_or_the_theology_of_the_perfect_tense__;xKvEgQ!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!m50oYIP-41rn_mZX5kE3luktPO6AI9MVnH2jkrDWidYWE8O1AgFw_Pw0GTCRyzXCgnlthGG2KjSKrMicHlgnFRcc5g$>
>
>
> Cari saluti,
> Raffaele Torella
>
> Il giorno 1 ott 2025, alle ore 19:37, JAMES RYAN via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> ha scritto:
>
> George,
>
> You have an example of the first person perfect usage in your *Rapid
> Sanskrit Method,* p. 174.
> The quotation is from *Śiśupālavadha *11.39. Spoken by a woman who had
> been drunk:
>
> *bahu jagada purastāt tasya mattā kila aham*
> *cakara ca kila cāṭu prauḍhayoṣidvad asya*
> *viditam iti sakhibhyo rātrivṛttaṃ vicintya*
> *vyapagatamadayā ahni vrīḍitam mugdhavadhvā*
>
> I used it to teach Sanskrit for 35 years and remember it well. (I
> separated words for easier scanning.)
>
> Jim Ryan
> Asian and Comparative Studies (Emeritus)
> California Institute of Integral Studies
>
>
>
> On 10/01/2025 6:55 AM PDT George L Hart via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> In classical Sanskrit as I remember it, the perfect tense is supposed to
> be used for acts one has not witnessed. Obviously, this makes the use of
> the first person perfect problematic. There is a passage — in
> Śiśupālavadha? — in which the poet has a character describe lovemaking
> while he had drunk too much, using the first person perfect to describe
> acts he is not sure he did. Does anyone know where this episode appears? I
> asked ChatGPT and it made up a passage it said was from the 8th canto of
> the Kumārasaṃbhava. When I pointed out to it that the passage does not
> exist, ChatGPT apologized and gave me something from the Ṛgveda.
>
> Here’s what ChatGPT said. I’m not sure “hallucinating” is strong enough.
>
>
> The passage you’re recalling is likely from Kālidāsa’s Kumārasambhava (The
> Birth of Kumāra), specifically in Canto 8. In this section, the god Śiva
> recounts his experience and interactions with Pārvatī. Śiva, reflecting on
> his actions, uses the first-person perfect tense in the original Sanskrit.
>
>
> For instance, in verse 8.33, Śiva says:
>
>
> mattvā madīyāśayapūrvakāṇi
>
> (I, being intoxicated, performed actions…)
>
>
>
> This verse and others capture the reflective tone where Śiva recalls his
> past actions, often influenced by a state of intoxication or strong emotion.
>
>
> This particular use of the first-person perfect is famous for illustrating
> Śiva’s introspection and human-like vulnerabilities. Would you like to
> explore this verse in more detail?
>
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> Prof. Raffaele Torella
> Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit
> Sapienza University of Rome
> wwwuniroma1.academia.edu/raffaeletorella
>
>
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