[INDOLOGY] Ancient Greek for Sanskritists

Mon Aug 11 15:17:10 UTC 2025

Dear Antonia,

Thank you for drawing attention to your Greek class. This has been a fascinating discussion. At St. John's all of our undergraduates learn ancient Greek, and a good number go on to take the M.A. in Eastern Classics where they learn Sanskrit, so are learning these languages in the more traditional order. I, though, did learn Sanskrit before learning Greek and found it helpful in some respects to have that perspective, for example with internal phonetic changes. (We use Luschnig coupled with original texts for the Greek). Antonia, I look forward to seeing what you draw attention to.

Jean, thank you for mention of Grammaire sanskrite à l'usage des étudiants hellénistes et latinistes, and Matthew for the link. I have had solid German since my undergraduate days and Latin from my childhood, but (embarrassingly) I am just learning French now as my sabbatical project. Reading this will be a goal.

Cheers,

Kathleen

Kathleen Longwaters

Tutor

St. John’s College

1160 Camino Cruz Blanca

Santa Fe, NM 87505

Kathleen.Longwaters at sjc.edu

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Jean Michel DELIRE via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2025 1:37 PM
To: Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu>
Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Ancient Greek for Sanskritists

     CAUTION: External Email.a0dfa0cc5d0339e1

Chère Lyne,

Je ne me sens nullement offensé, seulement triste à l'idée que nous ne puissions utiliser nos propres langues, qui sont toutes si riches, au lieu de nous exprimer - mal - dans une lingua franca, qui - je me répète - est parfois nommée Globish, ce n'est donc pas l'anglais qui, lui aussi, est très riche ! A propos, connaissez-vous le livre de Bernard Cerquiglini, 'La langue anglaise n'existe pas, c'est du français mal prononcé', Folio, 2024 ? C'est un peu provocateur, évidemment !
D'autre part, je ne visais les locuteurs d'aucune langue en particulier, surtout pas de l'allemand que j'apprécie beaucoup et qui, je trouve, a tellement en commun avec le sanskrit, mais peut-être beaucoup moins avec le français. Cela me rappelle une remarque de Pierre-Sylvain Filliozat, qui ne semblait pas beaucoup aimer lire l'allemand, étrange ! Finalement, beaucoup dépend du contact que nous avons eu, dans notre jeune âge, avec diverses langues. En ce qui me concerne, je suis sûr que l'apprentissage obligatoire du néerlandais à Bruxelles a initié mon intérêt pour les langues germaniques (scandinaves comprises) et, peut-être, pour le latin, le grec et le sanskrit finalement.

Très cordialement,

Jean Michel Delire

Le sam. 9 août 2025 à 20:47, Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu<mailto:Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu>> a écrit :
Cher Jean-Michel,

Je serais au regret que vous vous sentiez offensé ! Ce n'était là que jeu d'esprit, bien sûr!

Et je partage pleinement votre analyse de la condition qui nous est faite et à laquelle nous devons nous résoudre, non sans quelques accès de rébellion, parfois, à l'égal, semble-t-il, de nos collègues germanophones.

En ces temps de déferlement de détestation (pour dire le moins), restons sereins et joyeusement lucides! "Glissez, mortels, n'appuyez pas", vers célèbre qui ne serait, du reste, ni de La Fontaine, ni de Voltaire. A qui se fier!

Amitiés,

Lyne

Lyne Bansat-Boudon

Directeur d'études pour les Religions de l'Inde

Ecole pratique des hautes études, section des sciences religieuses

Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France

________________________________
De : Jean Michel DELIRE <jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com<mailto:jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com>>
Envoyé : samedi 9 août 2025 20:14
À : Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu<mailto:Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu>>
Cc : Matthew Kapstein <mattkapstein at proton.me<mailto:mattkapstein at proton.me>>; Indology List <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Objet : Re: [INDOLOGY] Ancient Greek for Sanskritists

Vous n’obtenez pas souvent d’e-mail à partir de jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com<mailto:jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com>. Pourquoi c’est important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
Chère Lyne, cher Matthew,

Je m'adresse à vous en français, que vous comprenez apparemment puisque vous réagissez au mot 'unhappily' comme signifiant 'malheureusement'. Peut-être 'unfortunately' conviendrait-il mieux, mais en bon francophone, je ne saisis pas la nuance... Tout cela, bien sûr, cum grano salis (tout le monde comprendra).
La raison pour laquelle j'ai cru bon d'ajouter cet adjectif s'explique par les expériences - assez nombreuses malheureusement - d'incompréhension du français par nos collègues, alors que nous sommes tous contraints de maîtriser l'anglais ou, à tout le moins, ce qu'un ami linguiste nomme le 'globish'. La prochaine fois, faites-moi confiance, je ne chercherai plus - même ironiquement - à excuser l'utilisation du français par un tel adjectif. Tant pis, continuons à écrire en français et advienne que pourra, l'I.A. nous sauvera ! Cependant, nous courrons toujours le risque que nos livres ne soient pas vraiment lus ou, pire, qu'ils ne soient pas cités dans leurs livres par de prétendus spécialistes dans notre domaine, comme cela m'est arrivé. Et, horreur, le 'spécialiste' en question avait communiqué avec moi, quelques années plus tôt, pour me demander conseil... en anglais bien entendu.

Jean Michel Delire,

P.S. Je m'attends à ce que 'la liste' me réprimande pour n'avoir pas rédigé ce texte en anglais (LOL), mais heureusement, aujourd'hui nous avons l'I.A. pour une traduction automatique (LLOOLL)

Le sam. 9 août 2025 à 18:42, Lyne Bansat-Boudon via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a écrit :

Dear Matthew,

I smile at your sense of humour.

Likewise, I was about to point out the unfortunate use of the adverb "unhappily", unless  we take it
as a "second degree" (or, more idiomatic perhaps: "with a pinch of salt"?)!

Sāptapadīnam,

Lyne

Lyne Bansat-Boudon

Directeur d'études pour les Religions de l'Inde

Ecole pratique des hautes études, section des sciences religieuses

Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France

________________________________
De : INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> de la part de Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Envoyé : samedi 9 août 2025 18:01
À : jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com<mailto:jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com> <jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com<mailto:jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com>>
Cc : Indology List <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Objet : Re: [INDOLOGY] Ancient Greek for Sanskritists

Already, Bergaigne 1884, a favourite of Louis Renou, was written with the expectation that one had Greek and Latin. I see nothing unfortunate about its being in French.
Matthew

On Sat, Aug 9, 2025 at 14:09, Jean Michel DELIRE via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:On+Sat,+Aug+9,+2025+at+14:09,+Jean+Michel+DELIRE+via+INDOLOGY+%3C%3Ca+href=>> wrote:
May I suggest the reading of F. Mawet's Grammaire sanskrite à l'usage des étudiants hellénistes et latinistes, Peeters, Louvain, 2012, which is, unhappily, in French ? Francine Mawet was my first Sanskrit teacher at the University of Brussels, before I met Pierre-Sylavin Filliozat in the early nineties. Her work was mainly a comparatist's one, which explains why she choose to compare the evolutions of Latin, Greek and Sanskrit languages.

Best,

Jean Michel Delire

Le sam. 9 août 2025 à 12:13, Satyanad Kichenassamy via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a écrit :
Dear All,

This announcement made me curious about the number of places in India
where, say, ancient Greek is taught, and how it compares with the number
of places in each of our respective countries where Sanskrit (or ancient
Tamil, etc.) is taught. The study of (all) ancient languages is
threatened everywhere.

A quick search did not lead to an answer, but did yield a few things
that may be of interest to the list.

Here is an example: "Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi,
established in 1969, has housed a Greek Chair since 1998." Also, " An
annual journal entitled Yavanika [...], devoted to research in
Greco-Indian studies and the exchange of ideas, is produced by the Greek
Chair, which also publishes academic works and organises lectures,
workshops and seminars."

https://www.leventisfoundation.org/universities-institutions/greek-chair-jawaharlal-nehru-university-new-delhi

There is also a Indo-Hellenic research centre in New Delhi.

https://elinepa.org/inauguration-of-the-indo-hellenic-research-center-at-new-delhi/

On how a British Indian student may feel excluded from Greek studies,
see this paper in the Oxford Student newspaper.

https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2020/07/08/fancy-an-indian-studying-greek-how-i-found-my-place-in-the-classical-tradition-as-a-british-indian/

For Latin, here is a list of places that have an entrance examination
for their Latin curriculum:

https://www.shiksha.com/humanities-social-sciences/latin-chp

I would assume Christian seminaries in India also routinely teach Latin
and, in Kerala, Syriac, see this site:

https://www.oasiscenter.eu/en/why-study-syriac-in-kottayam-india

Best wishes,

Satyanad Kichenassamy

Le 09/08/2025 à 00:57, Raffaele Torella via INDOLOGY a écrit :
>
>> Il giorno 8 ago 2025, alle ore 20:37, Antonia Ruppel < rhododaktylos at gmail.com<mailto:rhododaktylos at gmail.com>> ha scritto:
>>
>> Dear Raffaele,
>>
>> It is good to hear from someone associated with Vivarium Novum! Do you know how they are going to make use of the links between Sanskrit, Greek and Latin for their curricula? I have lots of experience with this and would be delighted to help.
> I do not think that the main aim of this initiative is to create “links" between Sanskrit and Latin-Greek, but to promote the study of the classical Western languages in Indian Universities, where it has been almost non-existent until now. Then, Vivarium Novum plans to add the teaching of Sanskrit culture to that of Latin and Greek in the framework of the Campus Mondiale dell’Umanesimo. Your collaboration would be, of course, very welcome.
>> But I wonder: when they go to India, will they continue the slightly unusual policies from their Italian site (young men only accepted if, among other things, they have their hair short, young women either not accepted at all, or later accepted but only if, unlike their male counterparts, they do not stay on the grounds of the Accademia)?
> Let me add some comments to your remarks. About the management of annual scholarship holders, Vivarium Novum is bound to cling to the regulation of the Convitti Nazionali Italiani, which provides for the accommodation of long-term scholarship holders of different sexes in separate buildings. Of course, this old-fashioned custom does not apply to the participants in intensive courses or in the many international conferences they organise. However, in order to overcome this unpleasant limitation they are near to acquisition of the XVIII century Villa Lucidi nearby, meant for accommodation of female long-term scholarship holders. Finally, you said: “when they go to India…”. They will not go to India: Latin and Greek will be taught by young Indian scholars trained in the Academy's courses. I am in touch with one of them, perhaps the most brilliant student of recent years: he is from Nepal and has indeed a very imposing name: Anandavardhan…
>
> Cari saluti,
> Raffaele
>
>> All my best,
>>        Antonia
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 at 19:04, Raffaele Torella < raffaele.torella at uniroma1.it<mailto:raffaele.torella at uniroma1.it> <mailto: raffaele.torella at uniroma1.it<mailto:raffaele.torella at uniroma1.it>>> wrote:
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>> I should like to draw your attention to the activity of Vivarium Novum Academy ( https://www.vivariumnovum.net/en < https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.vivariumnovum.net/en&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw3SRKsl-VURq20fjNp0R3np>), which is probably known to some of you as the venue of the wonderful Raniero Gnoli day, held in October 2022 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc-HaEXsVoA&t=524s < https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3DJc-HaEXsVoA%26t%3D524s&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw3iZp1RTjtkzMqoEJniQMdj>). In October 2024 it was also the seat of the Biannual Meeting of the Italian Association for Sanskrit Studies.
>>>
>>> Vivarium Novum, Campus Mondiale dell’Umanesimo, housed in the Borrominian Villa Falconieri near Frascati, promotes the study of Latin (including Medieval and Renaissance Latin) and Greek (Classical and Homeric) also as spoken languages. The President, Prof. Luigi Miraglia, with whom I am in close contact, has recently visited Nepal (for the WSC) and India in order to create Latin and Greek curricula in the Sanskrit Universities (to be extended in the near future to the major Indian Universities).
>>>
>>> Warmest wishes,
>>> Raffaele
>>>
>>>> Il giorno 8 ago 2025, alle ore 17:41, Antonia Ruppel via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info> <mailto: indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>> ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> Seth Powell already sent out the Yogic Studies course offerings for the autumn, but I wanted to take the liberty to point out a YS course that may be of particular interest to members of this list, Greek-S 101: Ancient Greek for Sanskritists, which I will teach starting September 15.
>>>>
>>>> I made a short video describing the course, which you can watch here < https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://youtu.be/XdJrcKwslck?si%253D9KRhtPi1G8-IXSRQ%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1755272552000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1QVr7wjr5GTpVqlU0ArD2L&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw2-qNd_Q79wO9LS5UsG1aVA>; but in a nutshell: if you already know Sanskrit, you have an excellent basis for getting to grips with Ancient Greek. There is an enormous amount of overlap in the forms and their usage, and the main difference between the two languages (the rather more intricate rules of syntax that Greek has) is exactly what we will be discussing in detail.
>>>>
>>>> Greek-S 101 covers all Ancient Greek grammar with the help of lots of custom-made resources; in 102, we will read Plato's Apology, and in 103 either Sophocles' Antigone or Euripides' Medea, both with readers I am making for each course. You can find all information on this sequence of courses at https://www.yogicstudies.com/greek-s-101 < https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.yogicstudies.com/greek-s-101%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1755272552000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1NWnxLGlNzzrGUFITTiq2z&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw0BzI87hMrDmXU5BzXSVBWf>.
>>>>
>>>> If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
>>>>
>>>> All my best,
>>>>      Antonia
>>>>
>>>> PS: Our course 'Latin for Sanskritists' just ended two weeks ago; the third term was 12 weeks of reading Seneca's Letters and contrasting Hellenistic philosophies with some of the philosophical approaches that we find in ancient India.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info> <mailto: INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>
>>>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755272552000000&usg=AOvVaw1QtRjTI4rep5I5uL-h0RRI < https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1755272552000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1QtRjTI4rep5I5uL-h0RRI&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw3fz1RWVytvi4smqxB46DG5>
>>> Prof. Raffaele Torella
>>> Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit
>>> Sapienza University of Rome
>>> wwwuniroma1.academia.edu/raffaeletorella<http://wwwuniroma1.academia.edu/raffaeletorella> < https://www.google.com/url?q=http://wwwuniroma1.academia.edu/raffaeletorella&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw3K_OKJ53Gy3Ysk8uffozBB>
>>>
>>> Fai crescere le giovani ricercatrici e i giovani ricercatori
>>> con il 5 per mille alla Sapienza
>>> Scrivi il codice fiscale dell'Università 80209930587
>>> Cinque per mille < https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.uniroma1.it/it/node/23149&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw1CEhjf5IZfH2jc6y70d0JI>
>
>
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--
**********************************************
Satyanad KICHENASSAMY
Professor of Mathematics
Laboratoire de Mathématiques de Reims  (CNRS, UMR9008)
     and GREI (EPHE-Paris and Sorbonne-Université)
Université de Reims Champagne-Ardenne
F-51687 Reims Cedex 2
France
Web: https://www.normalesup.org/~kichenassamy
**********************************************

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