[INDOLOGY] Ancient Greek for Sanskritists

Sat Aug 9 19:37:46 UTC 2025

Chère Lyne,

Je ne me sens nullement offensé, seulement triste à l'idée que nous ne
puissions utiliser nos propres langues, qui sont toutes si riches, au
lieu de nous exprimer - mal - dans une lingua franca, qui - je me répète -
est parfois nommée Globish, ce n'est donc pas l'anglais qui, lui aussi, est
très riche ! A propos, connaissez-vous le livre de Bernard Cerquiglini, '*La
langue anglaise n'existe pas, c'est du français mal prononcé*', Folio, 2024
? C'est un peu provocateur, évidemment !
D'autre part, je ne visais les locuteurs d'aucune langue en particulier,
surtout pas de l'allemand que j'apprécie beaucoup et qui, je trouve, a
tellement en commun avec le sanskrit, mais peut-être beaucoup moins avec le
français. Cela me rappelle une remarque de Pierre-Sylvain Filliozat, qui ne
semblait pas beaucoup aimer lire l'allemand, étrange ! Finalement, beaucoup
dépend du contact que nous avons eu, dans notre jeune âge, avec diverses
langues. En ce qui me concerne, je suis sûr que l'apprentissage obligatoire
du néerlandais à Bruxelles a initié mon intérêt pour les langues
germaniques (scandinaves comprises) et, peut-être, pour le latin, le grec
et le sanskrit finalement.

Très cordialement,

Jean Michel Delire

Le sam. 9 août 2025 à 20:47, Lyne Bansat-Boudon <
Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu> a écrit :

> Cher Jean-Michel,
>
> Je serais au regret que vous vous sentiez offensé ! Ce n'était là que jeu
> d'esprit, bien sûr!
>
> Et je partage pleinement votre analyse de la condition qui nous est faite
> et à laquelle nous devons nous résoudre, non sans quelques accès de
> rébellion, parfois, à l'égal, semble-t-il, de nos collègues germanophones.
>
> En ces temps de déferlement de détestation (pour dire le moins), restons
> sereins et joyeusement lucides! "Glissez, mortels, n'appuyez pas", vers
> célèbre qui ne serait, du reste, ni de La Fontaine, ni de Voltaire. A qui
> se fier!
>
> Amitiés,
>
> Lyne
>
> Lyne Bansat-Boudon
>
> Directeur d'études pour les Religions de l'Inde
>
> Ecole pratique des hautes études, section des sciences religieuses
>
> Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France
> ------------------------------
> *De :* Jean Michel DELIRE <jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com>
> *Envoyé :* samedi 9 août 2025 20:14
> *À :* Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu>
> *Cc :* Matthew Kapstein <mattkapstein at proton.me>; Indology List <
> indology at list.indology.info>
> *Objet :* Re: [INDOLOGY] Ancient Greek for Sanskritists
>
> Vous n’obtenez pas souvent d’e-mail à partir de jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com.
> Pourquoi c’est important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
> Chère Lyne, cher Matthew,
>
> Je m'adresse à vous en français, que vous comprenez apparemment puisque
> vous réagissez au mot 'unhappily' comme signifiant 'malheureusement'.
> Peut-être 'unfortunately' conviendrait-il mieux, mais en bon francophone,
> je ne saisis pas la nuance... Tout cela, bien sûr, cum grano salis (tout le
> monde comprendra).
> La raison pour laquelle j'ai cru bon d'ajouter cet adjectif s'explique par
> les expériences - assez nombreuses *malheureusement* - d'incompréhension
> du français par nos collègues, alors que nous sommes tous contraints de
> maîtriser l'anglais ou, à tout le moins, ce qu'un ami linguiste nomme le
> 'globish'. La prochaine fois, faites-moi confiance, je ne chercherai plus -
> même ironiquement - à excuser l'utilisation du français par un tel
> adjectif. Tant pis, continuons à écrire en français et advienne que pourra,
> l'I.A. nous sauvera ! Cependant, nous courrons toujours le risque que nos
> livres ne soient pas vraiment lus ou, pire, qu'ils ne soient pas cités dans
> leurs livres par de prétendus spécialistes dans notre domaine, comme cela
> m'est arrivé. Et, horreur, le 'spécialiste' en question avait communiqué
> avec moi, quelques années plus tôt, pour me demander conseil... en anglais
> bien entendu.
>
> Jean Michel Delire,
>
> P.S. Je m'attends à ce que 'la liste' me réprimande pour n'avoir pas
> rédigé ce texte en anglais (LOL), mais heureusement, aujourd'hui nous avons
> l'I.A. pour une traduction automatique (LLOOLL)
>
>
>
> Le sam. 9 août 2025 à 18:42, Lyne Bansat-Boudon via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> a écrit :
>
> Dear Matthew,
>
> I smile at your sense of humour.
>
> Likewise, I was about to point out the unfortunate use of the adverb "unhappily", unless  we take it
> as a "second degree" (or, more idiomatic perhaps: "with a pinch of salt"?)!
>
> Sāptapadīnam,
>
> Lyne
>
>
>
> Lyne Bansat-Boudon
>
> Directeur d'études pour les Religions de l'Inde
>
> Ecole pratique des hautes études, section des sciences religieuses
>
> Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France
> ------------------------------
> *De :* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> de la part de
> Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Envoyé :* samedi 9 août 2025 18:01
> *À :* jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com <jeanmicheldelire at gmail.com>
> *Cc :* Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Objet :* Re: [INDOLOGY] Ancient Greek for Sanskritists
>
> Already, Bergaigne 1884, a favourite of Louis Renou, was written with the
> expectation that one had Greek and Latin. I see nothing unfortunate about
> its being in French.
> Matthew
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2025 at 14:09, Jean Michel DELIRE via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info
> <On+Sat,+Aug+9,+2025+at+14:09,+Jean+Michel+DELIRE+via+INDOLOGY+%3C%3Ca+href=>>
> wrote:
>
> May I suggest the reading of F. Mawet's *Grammaire sanskrite à l'usage
> des étudiants hellénistes et latinistes*, Peeters, Louvain, 2012, which
> is, unhappily, in French ? Francine Mawet was my first Sanskrit teacher at
> the University of Brussels, before I met Pierre-Sylavin Filliozat in the
> early nineties. Her work was mainly a comparatist's one, which explains why
> she choose to compare the evolutions of Latin, Greek and Sanskrit languages.
>
> Best,
>
> Jean Michel Delire
>
> Le sam. 9 août 2025 à 12:13, Satyanad Kichenassamy via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> a écrit :
>
> Dear All,
>
> This announcement made me curious about the number of places in India
> where, say, ancient Greek is taught, and how it compares with the number
> of places in each of our respective countries where Sanskrit (or ancient
> Tamil, etc.) is taught. The study of (all) ancient languages is
> threatened everywhere.
>
> A quick search did not lead to an answer, but did yield a few things
> that may be of interest to the list.
>
> Here is an example: "Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi,
> established in 1969, has housed a Greek Chair since 1998." Also, " An
> annual journal entitled Yavanika [...], devoted to research in
> Greco-Indian studies and the exchange of ideas, is produced by the Greek
> Chair, which also publishes academic works and organises lectures,
> workshops and seminars."
>
>
> https://www.leventisfoundation.org/universities-institutions/greek-chair-jawaharlal-nehru-university-new-delhi
>
> There is also a Indo-Hellenic research centre in New Delhi.
>
>
> https://elinepa.org/inauguration-of-the-indo-hellenic-research-center-at-new-delhi/
>
> On how a British Indian student may feel excluded from Greek studies,
> see this paper in the Oxford Student newspaper.
>
>
> https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2020/07/08/fancy-an-indian-studying-greek-how-i-found-my-place-in-the-classical-tradition-as-a-british-indian/
>
> For Latin, here is a list of places that have an entrance examination
> for their Latin curriculum:
>
> https://www.shiksha.com/humanities-social-sciences/latin-chp
>
> I would assume Christian seminaries in India also routinely teach Latin
> and, in Kerala, Syriac, see this site:
>
> https://www.oasiscenter.eu/en/why-study-syriac-in-kottayam-india
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Satyanad Kichenassamy
>
> Le 09/08/2025 à 00:57, Raffaele Torella via INDOLOGY a écrit :
> >
> >> Il giorno 8 ago 2025, alle ore 20:37, Antonia Ruppel <
> rhododaktylos at gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >>
> >> Dear Raffaele,
> >>
> >> It is good to hear from someone associated with Vivarium Novum! Do you
> know how they are going to make use of the links between Sanskrit, Greek
> and Latin for their curricula? I have lots of experience with this and
> would be delighted to help.
> > I do not think that the main aim of this initiative is to create “links"
> between Sanskrit and Latin-Greek, but to promote the study of the classical
> Western languages in Indian Universities, where it has been almost
> non-existent until now. Then, Vivarium Novum plans to add the teaching of
> Sanskrit culture to that of Latin and Greek in the framework of the Campus
> Mondiale dell’Umanesimo. Your collaboration would be, of course, very
> welcome.
> >> But I wonder: when they go to India, will they continue the slightly
> unusual policies from their Italian site (young men only accepted if, among
> other things, they have their hair short, young women either not accepted
> at all, or later accepted but only if, unlike their male counterparts, they
> do not stay on the grounds of the Accademia)?
> > Let me add some comments to your remarks. About the management of annual
> scholarship holders, Vivarium Novum is bound to cling to the regulation of
> the Convitti Nazionali Italiani, which provides for the accommodation of
> long-term scholarship holders of different sexes in separate buildings. Of
> course, this old-fashioned custom does not apply to the participants in
> intensive courses or in the many international conferences they organise.
> However, in order to overcome this unpleasant limitation they are near to
> acquisition of the XVIII century Villa Lucidi nearby, meant for
> accommodation of female long-term scholarship holders. Finally, you said:
> “when they go to India…”. They will not go to India: Latin and Greek will
> be taught by young Indian scholars trained in the Academy's courses. I am
> in touch with one of them, perhaps the most brilliant student of recent
> years: he is from Nepal and has indeed a very imposing name: Anandavardhan…
> >
> > Cari saluti,
> > Raffaele
> >
> >> All my best,
> >>        Antonia
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 at 19:04, Raffaele Torella <
> raffaele.torella at uniroma1.it <mailto: raffaele.torella at uniroma1.it>>
> wrote:
> >>> Dear Colleagues,
> >>> I should like to draw your attention to the activity of Vivarium Novum
> Academy ( https://www.vivariumnovum.net/en <
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.vivariumnovum.net/en&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw3SRKsl-VURq20fjNp0R3np>),
> which is probably known to some of you as the venue of the wonderful
> Raniero Gnoli day, held in October 2022 (
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc-HaEXsVoA&t=524s <
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3DJc-HaEXsVoA%26t%3D524s&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw3iZp1RTjtkzMqoEJniQMdj>).
> In October 2024 it was also the seat of the Biannual Meeting of the Italian
> Association for Sanskrit Studies.
> >>>
> >>> Vivarium Novum, Campus Mondiale dell’Umanesimo, housed in the
> Borrominian Villa Falconieri near Frascati, promotes the study of Latin
> (including Medieval and Renaissance Latin) and Greek (Classical and
> Homeric) also as spoken languages. The President, Prof. Luigi Miraglia,
> with whom I am in close contact, has recently visited Nepal (for the WSC)
> and India in order to create Latin and Greek curricula in the Sanskrit
> Universities (to be extended in the near future to the major Indian
> Universities).
> >>>
> >>> Warmest wishes,
> >>> Raffaele
> >>>
> >>>> Il giorno 8 ago 2025, alle ore 17:41, Antonia Ruppel via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info <mailto: indology at list.indology.info>> ha
> scritto:
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear all,
> >>>>
> >>>> Seth Powell already sent out the Yogic Studies course offerings for
> the autumn, but I wanted to take the liberty to point out a YS course that
> may be of particular interest to members of this list, Greek-S 101: Ancient
> Greek for Sanskritists, which I will teach starting September 15.
> >>>>
> >>>> I made a short video describing the course, which you can watch here
> <
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://youtu.be/XdJrcKwslck?si%253D9KRhtPi1G8-IXSRQ%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1755272552000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1QVr7wjr5GTpVqlU0ArD2L&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw2-qNd_Q79wO9LS5UsG1aVA>;
> but in a nutshell: if you already know Sanskrit, you have an excellent
> basis for getting to grips with Ancient Greek. There is an enormous amount
> of overlap in the forms and their usage, and the main difference between
> the two languages (the rather more intricate rules of syntax that Greek
> has) is exactly what we will be discussing in detail.
> >>>>
> >>>> Greek-S 101 covers all Ancient Greek grammar with the help of lots of
> custom-made resources; in 102, we will read Plato's Apology, and in 103
> either Sophocles' Antigone or Euripides' Medea, both with readers I am
> making for each course. You can find all information on this sequence of
> courses at https://www.yogicstudies.com/greek-s-101 <
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.yogicstudies.com/greek-s-101%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1755272552000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1NWnxLGlNzzrGUFITTiq2z&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw0BzI87hMrDmXU5BzXSVBWf
> >.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
> >>>>
> >>>> All my best,
> >>>>      Antonia
> >>>>
> >>>> PS: Our course 'Latin for Sanskritists' just ended two weeks ago; the
> third term was 12 weeks of reading Seneca's Letters and contrasting
> Hellenistic philosophies with some of the philosophical approaches that we
> find in ancient India.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto: INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> >>>>
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755272552000000&usg=AOvVaw1QtRjTI4rep5I5uL-h0RRI <
>
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1755272552000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1QtRjTI4rep5I5uL-h0RRI&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw3fz1RWVytvi4smqxB46DG5
> >
> >>> Prof. Raffaele Torella
> >>> Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit
> >>> Sapienza University of Rome
> >>> wwwuniroma1.academia.edu/raffaeletorella <
> https://www.google.com/url?q=http://wwwuniroma1.academia.edu/raffaeletorella&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw3K_OKJ53Gy3Ysk8uffozBB
> >
> >>>
> >>> Fai crescere le giovani ricercatrici e i giovani ricercatori
> >>> con il 5 per mille alla Sapienza
> >>> Scrivi il codice fiscale dell'Università 80209930587
> >>> Cinque per mille <
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.uniroma1.it/it/node/23149&source=gmail-imap&ust=1755283088000000&usg=AOvVaw1CEhjf5IZfH2jc6y70d0JI
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
>
> --
> **********************************************
> Satyanad KICHENASSAMY
> Professor of Mathematics
> Laboratoire de Mathématiques de Reims  (CNRS, UMR9008)
>      and GREI (EPHE-Paris and Sorbonne-Université)
> Université de Reims Champagne-Ardenne
> F-51687 Reims Cedex 2
> France
> Web: https://www.normalesup.org/~kichenassamy
> **********************************************
>
>
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