[INDOLOGY] sanscrit > sanskrit > again back to sanscrit?? Re: List of paninian equivalents of western grammatical terms for sanskrit

Sat Sep 7 18:05:33 UTC 2024

Dear Satyanad,
Thanks for your precious remarks, to which I very much agree, and for the
reference to P.S. Filliozat's work, the title of which is, incidentally:

*GRAMMAIRE SANSKRITE PANINEENNE*. Par PIERRE-SYLVAIN FILLIOZAT. (Collection
Connaissance des Langues.) pp. 185. Paris, Picard, 1988.

Unless it is for the wish to be different from the common spelling in
English in contexts of "vulgarisation", there is currently no justification
(*pace* Jacques May) for archaic spellings such as "sanscrit" or
"sanscrite" which were earlier used *both *in English and in French.
Another well-known publication of P.S. Filliozat, available at his
acadamia.edu page, appeared in the series Que sais-je, with the title: *Le
Sanskrit*.

Similarly, the title of a work of Michel Angot, to which I recently saw a
reference on this list under the title *Le Sanscrit Commentarial*, appeared
in fact as *Le Sanskrit Commentarial* (Paris: Les Belles Lettres, 2017).

The transition to the scholarly consistent spelling 'sanskrit'  in European
languages occurred around the middle of the 20th century: in some of his
earlier publications Louis Renou still used 'sanscrit', later on
exclusively 'sanskrit'. Crishna instead of Krishna, etc., got out of
fashion even earlier.

Best,
Jan

On Sat, 7 Sept 2024 at 23:00, Satyanad Kichenassamy <
satyanad.kichenassamy at univ-reims.fr> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Indeed, as Jan pointed out, trying to avoid Sanskrit terms and concepts,
> usually without adequate discussion, or the creation of new terms or
> concepts, is an unfortunate phenomenon.
>
> Those who are interested in an explanation on simple examples of how
> Paninean grammar actually works may also want to look up:
>
> Pierre-Sylvain Filliozat, "Grammaire sanscrite pâninéenne", Paris: Picard,
> 1988.
>
> This book does not seem to be available electronically.
>
> Grammar as a (contemporary) science (as opposed to an art -- a tekhnè)
> owes much of its existence to Sanskrit. Frédérique Ildefonse argues that
> the technical study of language in Greek as a discipline emerged rather
> late, and without unification of its various components -- now viewed as
> subdisciplines of grammar -- because the study of language was taken over
> by philosophy (*La naissance de la grammaire **dans l'Antiquité grecque, *Paris:
> Vrin, 1997).
> Actually, what seems to be referred to here as "Western" grammar, as
> completely unrelated to "Paninean grammar" should be defined. The grammars
> we use for European languages were heavily influenced by the discovery of
> Sanskrit grammar and the ensuing developement of IE studies. This is
> apparent when reading many twentieth-century Greek and Latin grammars. I
> would recommend avoiding the word "Western" in this context, or many others
> for that matter, if one wants to be precise. When we speak of "tone
> sa.mdhi" in Chinese, is this phrase understandable in terms of a putative
> "Western grammar" that would not include borrowings from Sanskrit?
>
> Best,
>
>     Satyanad Kichenassamy
>
> Le 05/09/2024 à 15:50, Jan E.M. Houben via INDOLOGY a écrit :
>
> Dear Andrew,
> this is a nice list of approximate equivalents or equivalents under certain
> conditions.
> The list is misleading (in both directions) if the =- signs are taken too
> literally.
> As the list is attached to an online grammar the user should be able to
> find out that a word ending in dvitīyā may have other functions than the
> 'accusative' and the 'accusative' may be expressed by other vibhaktis than
> the second (cp. in classical Sanskrit yaj 'sacrifice' in the sentence
> indram ajena yajati "to Indra he sacrifices a goat"). And the (partial)
> equivalence only works if 'accusative' is taken as a flat indication of a
> case ending, forgetting the conceptual basis of the term 'accusative'. Nor
> is ṣaṣṭhī simply the 'genitive', etc.  (Mutatis mutandis this applies to
> terms such as 'optative' etc.).
> Among printed Sanskrit grammars for students I believe that
> Devavāṇīpraveśikā<https://sanskritstudio.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/review-of-devavanipravesika-by-robert-p-goldman/#:~:text=Sutherland%20Goldman%20is%20a%20typical,serve%20as%20a%20reference%20book.> <https://sanskritstudio.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/review-of-devavanipravesika-by-robert-p-goldman/#:~:text=Sutherland%20Goldman%20is%20a%20typical,serve%20as%20a%20reference%20book.>
> by
> Goldman & Goldman is one of the first to give *again* Sanskrit grammatical
> terms for Sanskrit students at the introductory level.
> *again*: Historically, introductions to Sanskrit since the nineteenth
> century are rather characterized by gradually filtering out Sanskrit
> grammatical terms (compare Max Mueller's 1870 *Sanskrit grammar for
> beginners* with the "New and abridged edition" of Max Mueller's grammar
> prepared by Macdonell and published in 1886). R G Bhandarkar in his  *First
> Book of Sanskrit* and *Second Book of Sanskrit *(from 1860s) tried to adopt
> "the terminology of the English Grammarians of Sanskrit" while "strictly
> following Panini, as explained by Bhattoji Dikshita in his
> Siddhantakaumudi" (unfortunately without giving a concordance of English
> and Sanskrit grammatical terms).
>
> Best,
> Jan Houben
>
> On Thu, 5 Sept 2024 at 09:28, Andrew Ollett via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> It is in no way complete/comprehensive, but I have a list here:
> http://prakrit.info/vrddhi/grammar/#glossary
>
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 3:20 AM rajam via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> I’m also interested in this endeavor.
>
> I’d like to have a Standard / most used / most needed list of Western
> Grammatical terms, so I can provide Tolkappiyan (tolkāppiyan) equivalents
> from the South for interested scholars.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> rajam
>
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2024, at 9:58 PM, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
>
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear list members,
> Have any members made a list of western grammatical terms and their
>
> paninian equivalents (preferably a searchable word document).  Abhyankar's
> Dictionary of Sanskrit Grammar is good for getting the western grammatical
> terms, when you know the Paninian  term, but I need a list going the other
> way , where given a western sanskrit grammatical term such as for example:
> "accusative, gerund, gerundive, optative" etc. etc. you can find the
> equivalent paninian term .
>
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
>
>
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> --
> **********************************************
> Satyanad KICHENASSAMY
> Professor of Mathematics
> Laboratoire de Mathématiques de Reims  (CNRS, UMR9008)
>     and GREI (EPHE-Paris and Sorbonne-Université)
> Université de Reims Champagne-Ardenne
> F-51687 Reims Cedex 2
> France
> Web: https://www.normalesup.org/~kichenassamy
> **********************************************
>
>

-- 

*Jan E.M. Houben*

Directeur d'Études, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*

École Pratique des Hautes Études (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

Groupe de recherches en études indiennes (EA 2120)

*johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*

*https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
<https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*

*https://www.classicalindia.info* <https://www.classicalindia.info>
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