[INDOLOGY] Devanagari v and b in manuscripts from Kashmir

[Charles DiSimone]

In either an edition or a transliteration I would transmit each word in
Roman script with either a ba or va depending on the correct spelling of
the word.

All my best,
Charles

Dr. Charles DiSimone
Department of Languages and Cultures
Ghent University


On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 12:06 AM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear all,
> In transcribing (not making an edition) of  a manuscript like this with व
> written for both व and ब is it best practice to have the transcription
> also follow the practice of the original manuscript and also just use the
> letter व . And leave any interpretation about both word breaks and
> whats a *v* or a *b* to any users of the transcription.
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2023 at 5:49 AM Witzel, Michael <witzel at fas.harvard.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear Harry,
>>
>> the matter is more complex:
>>
>> 1st, your MS,  obviously a copy of a Śāradā MS,  is written in the
>> typical Kashmiri style Devanagari of the mid-late 19th century; it has many
>> North Indian peculiarities, besides the v/b case, such as the abundance of
>> Anusvāra dots, not typical for Kashmiri Śāradā MSS that write homorganic
>> nasals.
>>
>> 2nd, Śāradā MSS distinguish between v (looks like Nāgarī v) and b, where
>> the more squarish, circle-like part is set lower, at the bottom of the line.
>> Good Vedic Devanāgarī MSS also distinguish between v and b:  v is
>> indicated by writing Nāgarī v with underdot.
>>
>> 3rd “standard" North Indian practice (as described in earlier posts) is
>> another matter.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Michael Witzel
>> Wales Research Prof. of Sanskrit (=Emeritus)
>> Dept. of South Asian Studies, Harvard University
>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
>> www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm
>> Residence: Yokohama, Japan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 26, 2023, at 1:04 PM, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you to Howard Resnick, Charles DiSimone, and Tom Cahill who
>> confirmed off-list that he has seen the same thing in N. Indian manuscripts.
>> Harry Spier
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 25, 2023 at 11:31 AM Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> In Bengali, and even in the standard Bengali-English Samsad dictionary,
>>> b and v are given as the same letter.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 25, 2023, at 9:14 AM, Charles DiSimone via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Harry Spier,
>>>
>>> I'm not sure when ba became a dedicated akṣara within the Devanāgarī
>>> script, but what you describe has been the norm for Brahmic script
>>> manuscript transmissions over history.
>>>
>>> All my best,
>>> Charles
>>>
>>> Dr. Charles DiSimone
>>> Department of Languages and Cultures
>>> Ghent University
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 25, 2023 at 2:57 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear list members,
>>>> I'm looking at a manuscript from the Ragunath Temple Sanskrit
>>>> Manuscript Library, Jammu, j&K. The text is
>>>> ajñānadvāntadīpikā by somanātha
>>>> The link to the pdf on archive.org
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__archive.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=nBrjyL62xDuQCVJuuz9EqUwjRZAmOoO3cxq514GT0xMUUB2Xz5UdD2EqtSrQ4dfr&s=XxATidz8sYLwi_fC0C5uWkKsxGlNDIZoubvQxQZF5MY&e=>
>>>> is:
>>>>
>>>> https://archive.org/download/AgyanDhvantaDeepikaShriSomnath4966Alm22Shlf4DevanagariTantra/Agyan%20Dhvanta%20Deepika%20-%20Shri%20Somnath_4966_Alm_22_Shlf_4_Devanagari-%20Tantra.pdf
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__archive.org_download_AgyanDhvantaDeepikaShriSomnath4966Alm22Shlf4DevanagariTantra_Agyan-2520Dhvanta-2520Deepika-2520-2D-2520Shri-2520Somnath-5F4966-5FAlm-5F22-5FShlf-5F4-5FDevanagari-2D-2520Tantra.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=nBrjyL62xDuQCVJuuz9EqUwjRZAmOoO3cxq514GT0xMUUB2Xz5UdD2EqtSrQ4dfr&s=zX0YtmSUh2CfOrdyKVdf7rjyHwX6IEqjwlWIWsQncrQ&e=>
>>>>
>>>> Looking at the first few lines it looks to me like the scribe is using
>>>> the devanagari letter  व for both व and ब.  Is that common practice in
>>>> devanagari manuscripts from kashmir?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Harry Spier
>>>>
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>>>>
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