[INDOLOGY] article search

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Mathew,

Since you brought the topic of Narayana guru, I thought you were trying to
understand the  textual , both documented oral texts and manuscripts that
might help in understanding the background that is behind the
existence/emergence of a Narayana Guru .

So I was pointing to two such references : 1. Oral texts that are
collected/documented and not yet documented. 2. Manuscripts that reflect
aspects like Hatha Yoga -Advata Vedanta interface (Advaita Vedantic Hatha
Yoga or Hatha Yogic Advaita however it can be labelled) etc.,

You seem to see the 'Bhakti movement' framework sufficient to handle the
issue. An aspect that did not receive sufficient attention is what can be
called as  'Yoga Movement', that has similarities and differences with
'Bhakti movement'. This movement has two main strands : 1.
Yoga-emphasizing, that has features strongly differing from Bhakti in
aspects such as opposing Murti-puja etc. 2. Yogaizing Bhakti , with
esoteric/mystic interpretations of Bhakti material.

Now that you mention your interest in S'astric writings towards this, let
me share that the concept of  'Shastric'  itself  needs a more nuanced
look. For example, Advaita Vedantic Hatha Yoga or Hatha Yogic Advaita texts
look at themselves as Shastric texts only.  Even these texts may not have
any social discussion. But it is these texts and their ideas that reflect
in a big way in the oral and rarely written texts of the Yoga movement
involving the scheduled castes among other non 'upper caste' social groups.

The other Advaita Vedanta texts of the same period may not take up this
question, as they focus on other core philosophical , non-social questions
of Vedanta.

What deserves attention is that these oral 'folk' lyrical and non lyrical
texts do have a significant portion devoted to this question of adhikaara
and the discussions therein view themselves as shastric only , use shastric
terms and logic.   There are legends within the lore of these 'Yoga
movement' communities, about how their leading Saadhaka, the parama guru of
their parampara, 'defeated ' a Shastric scholar or Shastric mathaadhipati
in a Shastric debate on topics that may include questions of adhikaara.
Their lyrical and non lyrical lore banks upon provisions such as antaryaaga
, inward practice interpretations of Yajna and other Karmas available in
Upanishads , relative greater significance of jnaana over karma found in
Vedanta  and so on and so forth, all from the Shaastra of Vedanta and its
most core texts Upanishads , Bhagavadgita etc., only. While the Hatha Yogic
Advaita Vedanta texts that seem to have influenced these thoughts are in
Sanskrit , all these lyrical and non lyrical 'folk' texts are in the
vernacular/ regional languages.

At another level, people like Swami Dayananda Sarawswati consider their
arguments in favour of adhikaara of all humanity including the scheduled
castes of India and all the people of the world for both the Vedic Karma
kaanda and Vedanta, view their arguments as Shastric only and they are in
Sanskrit only.







On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 5:57 PM Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>
wrote:

> Thank you, Nagaraj,
>
> I believe that in many bhakti-related traditions associated with the
> "scheduled cases" (Kabir, Namdev, etc.) we find notions that resonate
> closely with Advaita views. It seems that I need to clarify my specific
> question more precisely: What I am interested in are circumstances in which
> those outside of the three privileged castes have been more formally
> considered as adhikāri-s with respect to Vedānta, or where discussions of
> this possibility are addressed in the literature. Commentaries on the
> Yogavāsiṣṭha appear to raise the question, but I am otherwise unfamiliar
> with its treatment in śāstric writings - this is of course an admission of
> my own ignorance in this area. If there is scholarship that addresses the
> issue, I would be most grateful for references.
>
> Best,
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'études, émérite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>
> Associate, The Divinity School
> The University of Chicago
>
> https://brill.com/view/title/60949
>
> https://ephe.academia.edu/MatthewKapstein
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 26, 2022 5:39 AM
> *To:* Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>
> *Cc:* Indology Mailing List <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] article search
>
> During our conference on Advaita at Chinmaya University  in Veliyanad,
> Cochin, Shri Priyank Kumar Chauhan presented a paper on " Advaita
> Vedantic Undertones in Haryanvi Raginis " Part of his abstract :
>
> *Ragini* is a rich tradition of Haryanvi folk songs that are steeped in
> the local culture and way of life. They are often centred around local
> legends and folklore, episodes from the *itihasa-purana*, and lessons of
> common morality. Although *Advaitavada* is not directly encountered in
> the Haryanvi *Raginis,* certain core tenets of *Advaita* like the
> doctrine of *Maya,* centrality of *jnana,* and the idea that there exists
> a more fundamental absolute truth *(paramarthika)* behind the mundane
> truth of the world *(vyavaharika),* can be gleaned from the *Raginis.*
>
> abstract .
>
> These two like the Telugu ones are part of the repertoire of a 'folk'
> 'spiritual' community that includes the scheduled caste individuals as
> Gurus and S'ishyas.
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 1:46 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Sharing a Telugu video clip  from eastern Andhra Pradesh in which this
> yogic 'minstrel' (?) is singing a lyric while seeking alms as part of his
> life style. The lyric mentions Advaita mahaa vaakyas.
>
> A friend who shot this a few days ago on his mobile phone was asking me
> for the source of this lyric.
>
> I told him that it is a song called Krishna Rukminee Samvaadamu, a
> traditional 'folk song' that got documented during the late
> nineteenth century when folk song collection and publication activity was
> picking up.
>
> There is a huge amount of such lyrics, called tattvams in Telugu in
> various forms including lullabies, work songs ,  bairaagi songs etc., which
> contain Hatha Yoga mixed Advaitic ideas , that are associated with Yogi
> mathas that include Scheduled Caste individuals alongside others as Gurus
> and Sishyas.
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 6:50 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> I am now grateful to have the article I sought, but I would still be
> pleased to receive any further references you may have to the topic:
> the teaching and study of Advaita-Vedānta (or any other "orthodox" form of
> Vedānta) among "scheduled castes" in modern or pre-modern times.
>
> thanks in advance,
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'études, émérite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>
> Associate, The Divinity School
> The University of Chicago
>
> https://brill.com/view/title/60949
>
> https://ephe.academia.edu/MatthewKapstein
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2022 7:29 AM
> *To:* Indology Mailing List <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] article search
>
> Dear friends,
>
> Might one of you have a soft copy of Sengaku Mayeda,
> "Śaṅkara and Nārāyana Guru,"
> From the book Interpreting across Boundaries
> <https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9781400859276/html>?
>
> I would also be grateful for any other references you may have to the
> teaching and study of Advaita-Vedānta (or any other "orthodox" form of
> Vedānta, for that matter) among "scheduled castes" in modern or pre-modern
> times.
>
> with thanks as always,
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'études, émérite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>
> Associate, The Divinity School
> The University of Chicago
>
> https://brill.com/view/title/60949
>
> https://ephe.academia.edu/MatthewKapstein
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
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>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Senior Director, IndicA
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership
> Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Senior Director, IndicA
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership
> Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Senior Director, IndicA
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership
Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
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