[INDOLOGY] Can this be true?

Fri Dec 16 06:46:59 UTC 2022

Of course the terms right- and left-hand are used often in linguistics in
precisely the sense that Dr. Rajpopat uses them, without any reference to
writing. (E.g., right-branching, left-hand context, rightmost morpheme,
etc.)

Although I am convinced by Dr. Vergiani's arguments that Pāṇini was
literate ("Pāṇini’s Aṣṭādhyāyī. A Turning Point in Indian Intellectual
History," pp. 11-36 in Rivista degli Studi Orientali N.S. 92.3–4, 2019).

Congratulations to Dr. Rajpopat for this idea, which if true would join the
ranks of Kiparsky's reinterpretation as a simple and effective corrective
to the grammatical tradition.

Andrew

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 5:16 AM Rishi Rajpopat via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Sorry for the typos. That should be 1.1.47 mid aco'ntyāt paraḥ.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 4:12 AM Rishi Rajpopat <
> rishiatulrajpopat at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Prof. Olivelle,
>>
>> Thanks for your email. You are absolutely right. When I was writing my
>> thesis, I did think very carefully about whether I should use the terms
>> 'left' and 'right' while talking about pūrva and para respectively.
>>
>> One reason, of course, was, as you mention, that these terms only makes
>> sense in the written context. The other reason for my apprehension about
>> the accuracy / appropriateness of these terms was that, if Sanskrit were to
>> be written, like Persian, from right to left, then para would have meant
>> 'left'.
>>
>> So, why did I eventually decide to use the term 'right'? The thing is, I
>> had to make it absolutely clear that, according to me, paraṁ kāryam means
>> 'the rule which is applicable to the part that is spoken / pronounced later
>> in time'. For example, the suffix is uttered / pronounced later than the
>> base. I realized I would find it difficult to use this long and somewhat
>> awkward phrase ('the rule which is applicable to the part that is spoken /
>> pronounced later in time') again and again in my thesis. And since I've
>> introduced so many new ideas in my thesis, I wanted to present things
>> diagrammatically wherever possible to help the reader understand what I am
>> trying to say. For all these reasons, I decided to translate para as right
>> hand side when translating not only (my interpretation of) 1.4.2
>> vipratiṣedhe paraṁ kāryam, but also in other rules such as 1.1.51 uraṇ
>> raparaḥ and 1.1.47 mid acho'ntyāt paraṇ.
>>
>> I have not provided the above clarification in my thesis. In hindsight, I
>> think I definitely should have. In the future, when I write about my
>> doctoral research, I will most certainly do so. Thank you very much for
>> bringing this up.
>>
>> In my recent interviews though, including the one with BBC radio
>> yesterday, I did explain that paraṁ kāryam actually means 'that rule which
>> is applicable to the part (to be more precise, operand) which is spoken /
>> pronounced later', and that I use the term right hand side purely because I
>> find it convenient to do so.
>>
>> Best,
>> Rishi
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Dr. Rishi Rajpopat
>> MSt (Oxford), PhD (Cambridge),
>> Former Gonda Fellow (Leiden)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 10:00 PM Patrick Olivelle via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> I wrote a response but apparently sent it only to Dominik. Here it is:
>>>
>>> Thank you, Dominik. I am no Pāṇinian, and it is good to know that this
>>> is a series work and advances scholarship. I was curious, however, about
>>> the use of ‘left’ and ‘right’ in the write-up on websites. These terms make
>>> sense only within a manuscript culture. Would the translations have to be
>>> “prior” and “posterior” or some terms to that effect, if we are dealing
>>> with orality?
>>>
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 15, 2022, at 12:04 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> Madhav, Rajpopat discusses this point and explicitly defends his view in
>>> paras 1.6 and 1.7.
>>>
>>> On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 07:11, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In contrast with Patañjali, many modern scholars have argued that
>>>> originally the rule "vipratiṣedhe paraṃ kāryam" was intended to apply only
>>>> within the ekasaṃjñādhikāra prescribed by the previous rule "ā kaḍārād ekā
>>>> saṃjñā." While Rishi Popat disagrees with Patañjali, he still seems to take
>>>> the rule as applying across the entire Aṣṭādhyāyī. Popat has an interesting
>>>> suggestion, but I am not yet convinced of his understanding of paratva. I
>>>> would like to hear from my Guru, Professor Cardona.
>>>>
>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore,
>>>> India
>>>>
>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 3:42 AM Arash Zeini via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for sharing this. A great example of close reading, if true. I
>>>>> was most intrigued by Prof. Vergiani's statement:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mr Rajpopat said he had a ‘eureka moment’ after his supervisor at
>>>>> Cambridge, Professor of Sanskrit Vincenzo Vergiani, advised him: ‘If the
>>>>> solution is complicated, you are probably wrong.’"
>>>>>
>>>>> All best,
>>>>> Arash
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 15 Dec 2022, 08:13 Kenneth Gregory Zysk via INDOLOGY, <
>>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I came across this in my morning news:
>>>>>> *https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/student-solves-ancient-puzzle-that-baffled-scholars-for-centuries/ar-AA15i1XE?cvid=6546b24b0bde472b850c8525d2afe813*
>>>>>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msn.com%2Fen-us%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Fstudent-solves-ancient-puzzle-that-baffled-scholars-for-centuries%2Far-AA15i1XE%3Fcvid%3D6546b24b0bde472b850c8525d2afe813&data=05%7C01%7C%7C7cb97ebb82b842cf9aae08dadec6cf05%7C31d7e2a5bdd8414e9e97bea998ebdfe1%7C0%7C0%7C638067242714035017%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9lIF6IRLg23B6G1Gi4d3U9zHm%2BQP9gdb%2BJIYw5vQGgk%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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