[INDOLOGY] Visualisation of Sanskrit Phonetics

Wed Sep 29 03:06:28 UTC 2021

Thanks, Hans. I have thought along similar lines.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 7:34 PM Hock, Hans Henrich <hhhock at illinois.edu>
wrote:

> Good to hear from you, Madhav.
>
> Yes, dialectal or śākhā differences may well play a role in some of the
> different characterizations; but the jihvāmūlīya one, as described, is
> difficult to accept – how could syllabic *ṛ* be articulated with a
> quarter-mora of uvular syllabic + half-mora alveolar nonsyllabic +
> quarter-mora of uvular syllabic? Doing so would require a more than unusual
> amount of articulatory acrobatics. The term jihvāmūlīya most likely refers
> to an early stage  at which *a* was characterized as jihvāmūlīya, i.e.
> velar, and the term stuck for the syllabic portions of *ṛ* after *a* was
> reclassified as kaṇṭhya. (See George Cardona’s article, reference below,
> for this development.) At any rate, the term mürdhanya is not used in the
> early phonetic treatises.
>
> As I recall, the term mūrdhanya is also used in some lateish phonetic
> treatises (e.g. the Pāṇinīya Śikṣā), but as in the Siddhāntakaumudī this no
> doubt reflects the influence of the grammarians.
>
> All the best,
>
> Hans
>
> Cardona, George. 1986. Phonology and phonetics in ancient Indian works:
> The case of voiced and voiceless
> elements. *South Asian languages: Structure, convergence, and diglossia*,
> ed. by Bh.
> Krishnamurti et al., 60-80. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidas
>
>
> On 28 Sep2021, at 21:05, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
>
> Dear Hans,
>
>      I have looked at these variant descriptions of the phonetics of r and
> r̥ as possible dialectal variations. But the technical requirements of
> Savarṇatva in Pāṇini's grammar may have exerted some influence on the
> phonetic descriptions found in relatively late texts reflected in works
> like the Siddhāntakaumudī of Bhaṭṭoji.
>
> Madhav
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 6:50 PM Hock, Hans Henrich <hhhock at illinois.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On the characterization of syllabic *ṛ* as jihvāmūlīya see the following
>> 1992 article of mine.
>>
>> Were *ṛ* and * ḷ* velar in early Sanskrit? *Vidyā-Vratin: Professor A.
>> M. Ghatage felicitation volume*, ed. by V. N. Jha, 69-94. (Sri Garib
>> Dass Oriental Series, 160.) Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications,
>>
>> The characterization of *ṛ* and *r *as savarṇa with the mūrdhanya series
>> is no doubt a phonological one – like *ṣ* they trigger natva.
>> Phonetically this can be accounted for by the fact that both alveolar
>> *r/ṛ* and retroflex *ṣ* are postdental and therefore farther back than
>> dental *n*. Rather than inventing another term, similar to [- dental] of
>> current western phonology, the Indian tradition used the existing term
>> mūrdhanya to account for this shared behavior.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Hans Henrich
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26 Sep2021, at 19:23, Jim Ryan via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> In response to this “phonetical” thread, the question persists for me why
>> vocalic ṛ and consonantal ra are considered “savarṇas” in the mūrdhanya
>> series. (Siddhānta Kaumudī I.10.) Currently. In all the Sanskrit regional
>> “dialects" I know of they are pronounced, in whole or part, as alveolars.
>> Are we to presume that somehow these once were actually cerebals. Or… was
>> Pāṇini wrong, here?
>>
>> Jim Ryan
>>
>> On Sep 26, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Harry, for sharing these articles. Best,
>>
>> Madhav
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore,
>> India
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 11:26 AM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>> There are two articles by SK Chatterji written 25 years apart titled
>>> "The Pronounciation of Sanskrit" , same title, different articles.  I'm
>>> attaching them for whoever is interested.
>>> Harry Spier
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 1:28 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>> As I recall, the issue of how Sanskrit is pronounced in modern (i.e.
>>>> early 20th-century) India is addressed in an article by Suniti Kumar
>>>> Chatterji –
>>>>
>>>> Chatterji, Suniti Kumar. The pronunciation of Sanskrit. *Indian
>>>> Linguistics*, (1961) vol. 21, pp. 61-82. Originally: *K. B. Pathak
>>>> commemoration volume*, 330-349. Bhandarkar Oriental Research
>>>> Institute, 1934.
>>>> For the ancient period, there are the Prātiśākhyas of course (the
>>>> source for Allen’s and Verma’s publications; Vidhata Mishra largely repeats
>>>> Verma). On the earliest recoverable pronunciation of syllabic *ṛ* as
>>>> [ara] (with both [a]s a quarter mora), I have published a paper: Were ṛ and
>>>> ḷ velar in early Sanskrit? *Vidyā-Vratin: Professor A. M. Ghatage
>>>> felicitation **volume*, ed. by V. N. Jha, 69-94. (Sri Garib Dass
>>>> Oriental Series, 160.) Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications, 1992
>>>>
>>>> To teach retroflex to American students I ask them to pronounce their
>>>> *r* and, while they are doing so, press the tongue hard against the
>>>> roof of the mouth, which produces a retroflex stop *ṭ* that is quite
>>>> distinct from their *t* sound.
>>>>
>>>> In general, I have found it useful to adopt one of the regional
>>>> variants of modern Indian pronounciations (I use the northern one with
>>>> *ri* for *ṛ* and *gy* for *jñ* (while properly warning the students
>>>> that these are modern pronunciations). By becoming familiar with this way
>>>> of pronouncing Sanskrit students will find it easier to follow Indian
>>>> Sanskritists when they are speaking/pronouncing Sanskrit. I also urge
>>>> students to keep their aspirates and nonaspirates and their dentals and
>>>> retroflexes as distinct as possible, telling them that when I was beginning
>>>> to study Sanskrit I sometimes spent fruitless hours locating something in
>>>> the dictionary because of looking up under the “wrong *t*”.
>>>>
>>>> I hope some of you will find these remarks interesting.
>>>>
>>>> All the best – stay safe,
>>>>
>>>> Hans Henrich
>>>>
>>>>
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