Re: [INDOLOGY] fate of demons slain by Rāma

[Robert Goldman]

One has to distinguish between  figures who are cursed, for one reason or another to take on the form of a rākṣasa. One example that Matthew raises is that of Virādha who was really the gandharva Tumburu who was cursed by Vaiśranaṇa to suffer this transformation. But when propitiated,  Vaiśravaṇa relented to the extent of allowing him to be restored to his original state after being killed by Rāma. VR 3. 3) Same deal with Kabandha (VR 3.67). Indeed this is a common trope in the literature. But this is quite different from the case of those who are actual rākṣasas by birth ( The origin and  genealogy of the rākṣasas is laid out in detail in the first half of Vālmīki’s Uttarakāṇḍa.)

The idea that  “genetic” rākṣasas either seek  or attain death at Rāma’s hands as a means of salvation is utterly alien to Vālmīki’s poem. It develops, along with the whole concept of dveṣabhakti in the sectarian purāṇas (cf. the tale of Pūtanā in the Bh.P.) and is a staple of the “vāstava” level of interpretation of many of the commentators of the Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa.

Best to all.
Dr. R. P.  Goldman
Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies
Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409

> On Sep 13, 2020, at 6:33 AM, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> This theme is also connected to the theme of Vaira Bhakti or Vidvesha Bhakti. 
> 
> This paradoxical concept of Vaira Bhakti is rooted in the idea of raaga and dvesha being the two forms of the same thing called sanga (e.g., in Gita). 
> 
> Thus intra-Indic historical , global historical, intra-Indic comparative/cross-cultural , global comparative/cross-cultural  studies on  the theme of hate as a form of love also may provide diachronic and synchronic clues to the development / occurrence of the theme. 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 6:11 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Studies on the history of the theme of Jaya -Vijaya and their incarnations as demons could be one route to tracing the history of this theme. 
> 
> Studies on the historical background of the occurrence of this narrative in Bhagavata Purana may provide clues.     
> 
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 3:52 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Dear friends,
> 
> It is often said that the demons killed by Rāma 
> are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of course provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence done to them.
> The notion that the demon is in fact freed by Rāma is, so far as I am aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Virādha), but not in every case.
> When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in Vālmiki??)
> 
> Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to scholarship on this subject.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'études, émérite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> 
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
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> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
>  
>  
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