[INDOLOGY] Question

Wed Jun 17 23:17:52 UTC 2020

Thank you Walter. The full TAK article is as follows.  Previously I left
out the first two paragraphs (which contain the reference Walter Slaje
pointed out) because I think they refer to a different meaning  of kIlaka ,
a sharp stick used in certain rites and  rituals, rather than what we're
discussing,  kIlaka as characteristic of mantras and stotras.

Harry Spier

*k**ī**la*, *n.m.*, *k**ī**laka*, *n.m. *[􀉲], piquet, coin, pointe ; sharp
piece of

wood, pin, wedge; zugespitztes Holzstäbchen.

Au sens propre ou matériel, un *k**ī**laka *est une pointe ou fiche

en bois. De telles pointes ou petits piquets sont utilisés pour

délimiter un espace rituel. Ainsi, dans les rites concernant le terrain

de crémation, lors des funérailles, telles que les décrit la SP3, des

*k**ī**laka *de bois sec sur lesquels on récite l’*astramantra* *et que l’on

entoure d’une cordelette rouge doivent être enfoncés autour du

creux ménagé pour le bûcher ; v. SP3, p. 592, et notes de BRUNNER

ad loc.

Ce peut être une pointe servant à écrire ou à tracer une figure.

[A.P.] Il s’emploie aussi dans le rite de *tā**ḍ**ana* *(JayS 28.64a ;

PādS *cp *32.239cd). [M.R.] Un *k**ī**laka *en forme de pointe ou de

bâtonnet peut être utilisé dans le rite de *k**ī**lana**.

Au sens figuré, le *kīlaka *est un des éléments servant à caractériser

un mantra tantrique et qui, dans les rites, doivent être imposés,

par *nyāsa**, en commençant par le ṛ*ṣ**i* (v. s.v. *rṣā**di**)*. Ce

*kīlaka *est conçu comme la pointe grâce à laquelle le mantra va

pouvoir se ficher dans la personne ou l’objet qu’il vise et donc

agir. Les manuels de rituel qui mentionnent le *kīlaka *le donnent

comme formé par un des éléments constitutifs (mot ou syllabe) du

mantra. Une telle mention ne paraît pas être très ancienne. [A.P.]

Le *kīlaka*, *PHAṬ􀄝****, du *sudarśanasahasranāmastotramahāmantra *est

mentionné dans le Sudarśanasahasranāmastotra donné en appendice

de l’AhS (p. 617). [M.R.] Voir aussi TBhS, p. 170, citant un

texte non daté. La mention du *kīlaka *est courante à l’époque moderne.

[A.P.]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 1:42 AM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com> wrote:

> Looking up the article in question (s.v. *kīla*, n.m., *kīlaka*, n.m., it
> mentions Somaśambhupaddhati (ed. Brunner, vol. 3, p. 592, with note on the
> same), Jayākhyasaṃhitā 28.64a; Pādmasaṃhitā 32.239cd.
>
>
>
> "La mention du *kīlaka* est courante à l’époque moderne" should mean "is
> [still] in use today"
>
>
>
> A.P. = André Padoux (1920–2017).
>
>
> Regards,
>
> WS
>
>
> Am Mi., 17. Juni 2020 um 06:16 Uhr schrieb Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
>> Madhav,
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>>>  The statement "La mention du *k**ī**laka *est courante à l’époque
>>> moderne." is also interesting.  How old are these notions?  Are they
>>> limited to relatively late texts?
>>>
>>
>> Like you I wondered what time span the writer meant by "  l’époque
>> moderne." .  The full sentence reads "La mention du *k**ī**laka *est
>> courante à l’époque moderne.[A.P.]"
>>   Are [A.P.] the initials of the contributing author or something else:?
>>
>> There is also the statement in the TAK article: Les manuels de rituel
>> qui mentionnent le *k**ī**laka *le donnent
>>
>> comme formé par un des éléments constitutifs (mot ou syllabe) du
>>
>> mantra. Une telle mention ne paraît pas être très ancienne. [A.P.]
>>
>>
>> But the TAK article  doesn't give the names of these ritual manuals that
>> mention kIlaka.
>>
>> Harry Spier
>>
>> I see the *kīlaka *in the Rāmarakṣāstotra, but there is no *argalā *in
>>> it.  So it looks like there is no invariable connection between *kīlaka
>>> *and *argalā.  *I have a manuscript in my hand that has some preamble
>>> to the *Viṣṇusahasranāmastotra*, that refers to various verses in it as *bīja,
>>> śakti, hr̥daya, kīlaka, astra, kavaca, *and *mantra*.  It does not have
>>> *argalā*, and these various verses assigned these roles are scattered
>>> throughout the text of the *Viṣṇusahasranāma*.  I wonder if it means
>>> that while reciting the text of the *Viṣṇusahasranāma, *these various
>>> steps or landmarks happen.  I was taught the recitation of this stotra, but
>>> the recitation does not halt at these various verses to perform anything
>>> specific. There is something mysterious to me.
>>>
>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>
>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 5:39 PM Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Madhav,
>>>> I've been trying to find this out (especially about *k**ī**laka *for
>>>> over 20 years.
>>>> 1. Thomas Coburn in his book "Encountering The Goddess" note 27 to
>>>> Chapter 6 says:
>>>> Ambika Datta UpAdhyAya observed that all mantras, Rg Vedic and other,
>>>> have placed over them a curse which renders their recitation ineffective
>>>> until it is removed with a kIlaka, a sort of "counter curse". An
>>>> appropriate kIlaka exists for every mantra.  The episode that appears here
>>>> in the kIlaka is clearly similar, but the restraint is placed on the mantra
>>>> in SaptazatI not as a curse, but to contain its overwhelming power.
>>>> 2. The TAK entry for kIlaka is:
>>>>
>>>> Au sens figuré, le *k**ī**laka *est un des éléments servant à
>>>> caractériser
>>>>
>>>> un mantra tantrique et qui, dans les rites, doivent être imposés,
>>>>
>>>> par *ny**ā**sa**, en commençant par le ṛ*ṣ**i* (v. s.v. *rṣā**di**)*.
>>>> Ce
>>>>
>>>> *kī**laka *est conçu comme la pointe grâce à laquelle le mantra va
>>>>
>>>> pouvoir se ficher dans la personne ou l’objet qu’il vise et donc
>>>>
>>>> agir. Les manuels de rituel qui mentionnent le *k**ī**laka *le donnent
>>>>
>>>> comme formé par un des éléments constitutifs (mot ou syllabe) du
>>>>
>>>> mantra. Une telle mention ne paraît pas être très ancienne. [A.P.]
>>>>
>>>> Le *k**ī**laka*, *PHA**Ṭ**􀄝****, du *sudar**ś**anasahasran**ā*
>>>> *mastotramah**ā**mantra *est
>>>>
>>>> mentionné dans le Sudarśanasahasranāmastotra donné en appendice
>>>>
>>>> de l’AhS (p. 617). [M.R.] Voir aussi TBhS, p. 170, citant un
>>>>
>>>> texte non daté. La mention du *k**ī**laka *est courante à l’époque
>>>> moderne.
>>>>
>>>> [A.P.]
>>>>
>>>> 3. Other than whats above.  The vague contradictory information that
>>>> I've  received 15 0r 20 years (I no longer remember the sources)  is that
>>>> it is like a bolt of a lock or a door.  Some informants saying that
>>>> repeating the kIlaka bija syllable removes the pin of the lock or door
>>>> releasing the power of the mantra.  Other informants saying repeating the
>>>> kIlaka bija syllable puts the pin in the lock or door of the mantra to
>>>> contain its power so the repeater of the mantra isn't destroyed by the
>>>> power of the mantra.
>>>>
>>>> If you receive any information offlist please pass it on to me.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Harry Spier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:54 PM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What is the exact significance of the terms अर्गला and कीलक as they
>>>>> appear in qualifying several mantras, stotras etc?  I have seen these
>>>>> terms, but did not think further about them. Someone asked me this
>>>>> question, and I did not have an answer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>>>
>>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/attachments/20200617/0c1b4fcb/attachment.htm>