Re: [INDOLOGY] Thieme on Īśopaniṣad

[Matthew Kapstein]

I would add to Aleksandar's suggestion the thought that Chāndogya VIII may be, at least in part, post-Buddhist and in fact a response to early Buddhism. This has to do with the exercise of "finding" (anu-vid, upa-labh) the self, which resonates closely with Pali materials in terms of both meaning and lexicon, but seems framed rather differently than the issue of knowledge of the self in other relatively early materials. If this idea is at all credible, it should not imply that the Chāndogya as a whole is so late, just the redaction of the final section.

best to all,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'études, émérite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2020 10:29 PM
To: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>; Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Thieme on Īśopaniṣad

Thanks, Dominik.  Will look it up.  Best,

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 7:57 PM Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
There is discussion of the relative chronology of the Bṛhadāraṇyaka upaniṣad in Bronkhorst's Greater Magadha, esp. chapter IIA.3 and in part III Chronology.  The discussion is mainly in the context of the doctrine of Yājñavalkya's teachings and ātman, karman and punarjanman, and does not discuss the Īśāvāsyopaniṣad specifically.

Best,
Dominik
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>


On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 19:43, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

     I have been rereading Professor Paul Thieme's article on the Īśopaniṣad published in the JAOS.  In one of his discussions, he seems to claim that the Chāndogya-Upaniṣad is older than the Īśa.  Here is that passage:

[image.png]

What is a good modern discussion about the relative chronology of the "older" Upaniṣads?  Has anyone discussed Thieme's views?  With best regards,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
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