[INDOLOGY] "Caste passing"

Sun Jan 21 18:42:44 UTC 2018

praamaadikam:

Chandaala literally the one who is a dare devil professional

not

Chandaala literally the one who is a dear devil professional

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 12:11 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> > And - the cases of God showing himself to the believers in the body of
> a Chandala?
>
> --- Using the word 'God' as a translation for certain words/concepts of
> Hinduism is not unusual and even a highly widespread tendency; so it is not
> particularly pointed at your usage when I said there is no God in
> 'Hinduism'. Translating back, this word could be somethinglike an
> Upanishadic paramaatman/bhagavaan/brmhan  or a puraanic Vishnu /Shiva.
> Though I am not able to connect which story this could be, this is a great
> story. Chandaala literally the one who is a dear devil professional
> handling activities which others can't dear to even imagine taking up,
> activities related to death, executing death sentences etc., As such,
> Chandaala being viewed as, say, Shiva himself makes a lot of sense.
>
> If the reference is to Maneeshaapanchakam incident of Shankara, then the
> hagiography Shankaravijayam is depicting this as the disguise Shiva takes
> to bring Shankara's own theory into his anubhooti.
>
> Shiva passing for Chandaala is not person of one caste passing for one of
> another caste. It is the case of a super-caste entity or an entity beyond
> caste passing for a person of a caste treated badly by the hierarchically
> oriented people of caste system.
>
> If an entity beyond caste passing for a person of a certain caste is caste
> passing, yes, this is a case of caste passing only.
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 11:05 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> > There is no God in Hinduism.
>>
>> Thank you for this bit of instruction.
>>
>> > In any case this has nothing to do with caste passing under question
>> here.
>> It has. Plenty. Disguises in both directions.
>>
>>
>> 2018-01-21 12:47 GMT+01:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> There is no God in Hinduism.
>>>
>>> In any case this has nothing to do with caste passing under question
>>> here.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And - the cases of God showing himself to the believers in the body of
>>>> a Chandala?
>>>>
>>>> Artur Karp
>>>>
>>>> 2018-01-21 12:33 GMT+01:00 Manu Francis via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Nagaraj Paturi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, you are right.
>>>>> Novels are also part of the query.
>>>>>
>>>>> With very best wishes.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Emmanuel Francis
>>>>> Chargé de recherche CNRS, Centre d'étude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud
>>>>> (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris)
>>>>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/
>>>>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725
>>>>> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/
>>>>> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950,
>>>>> Universität Hamburg)
>>>>> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html
>>>>> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis
>>>>>
>>>>> 2018-01-21 10:16 GMT+01:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The query was for
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I am searching for *references in** Indian literature* and *classical
>>>>>> texts *of instances of "caste impersonation", i.e. when an
>>>>>> individual or a group "passes" as a caste which is not their original birth
>>>>>> group. My search includes such instances in *contemporary literature*"
>>>>>> (highlighting mine)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since the first sentence has Indian literature and classical texts ,
>>>>>> I thought 'contemporary literature' in the second sentence means
>>>>>> contemporary literary texts such as novels. Am I right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 2:56 AM, Tyler Williams via INDOLOGY <
>>>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Addendum: one of his publications that bears directly on the subject
>>>>>>> is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2014. “Lal Beg Underground: the Passing of an ‘Untouchable’ God.” In
>>>>>>> Knut A. Jacobsen, Mikael Aktor and Kristina Myrvold, eds., *Objects
>>>>>>> of Worship in South Asian Religions: Forms, Practices, and Meanings*,
>>>>>>> pp. 143-162. New York: Routledge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Tyler Williams <
>>>>>>> tylerwwilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Dr. Francis,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joel Lee <https://anso.williams.edu/profile/jl20/> at Williams
>>>>>>>> College in the US has written on the phenomenon of caste 'passing' in
>>>>>>>> contemporary South Asia and is also interested in historical and literary
>>>>>>>> precedents. I am sure that it would be fine if Dr. Headley contacted him
>>>>>>>> directly, but I would also be happy to introduce them if she prefers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Tyler Williams
>>>>>>>> University of Chicago
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Manu Francis via INDOLOGY <
>>>>>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I forward below a query on behalf my Colleague Zoé Headley.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (on her current project "Studies in Tamil Studio Archives and
>>>>>>>>> Society (S.T.A.R.S.)"
>>>>>>>>> see e.g:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.ifpindia.org/content/studies-tamil-studio-archive
>>>>>>>>> s-and-society-stars
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> http://www.lemonde.fr/sciences/video/2018/01/19/une-autre-hi
>>>>>>>>> stoire-de-l-inde-ecrite-par-ses-photos_5244050_1650684.html)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any help will be much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Her query is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "I am searching for references in Indian literature and classical
>>>>>>>>> texts of instances of "caste impersonation", i.e. when an individual or a
>>>>>>>>> group "passes" as a caste which is not their original birth group. My
>>>>>>>>> search includes such instances in contemporary literature"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With very best wishes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Emmanuel Francis
>>>>>>>>> Chargé de recherche CNRS, Centre d'étude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du
>>>>>>>>> Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris)
>>>>>>>>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/
>>>>>>>>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725
>>>>>>>>> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/
>>>>>>>>> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB
>>>>>>>>> 950, Universität Hamburg)
>>>>>>>>> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html
>>>>>>>>> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
>>>>>>>>> managing committee)
>>>>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>
>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>

-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/attachments/20180122/56e16623/attachment.htm>