Re: [INDOLOGY] Was Aśoka an iconoclast?

[Artur Karp]

Dear Colleagues,

As far as I am concerned, falsification of historical evidence should be
called by its proper term. .

There is a difference between "he might have been" and "he was".

Aśoka's person is an object of sanctification, whatever the reasons behind
it. His Edicts are routinely decontextualized. Dr. Ambedkar's statement,
re: removal of idols, is a good example of such practice.

Best,

Artur K.

2017-05-28 5:28 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:

> Artur-ji,
>
> Dr Ambedkar's
>
>  Asoka said, "As I venerate the Buddha, the Enlightened One, there is no
> need to worship any other deity"
>
> need not be taken too literally Asoka said it in so many words in an edict
> or such document.
>
> It is just a narration style, communicating the intention of a character
> behind his actions  in the narrative by describing as though he expressed
> the intention. So looking for an edict or such document with these words or
> asking for such a document may not be a fruitful exercise.
>
> You say,
>
> "The question of 'the emergence of images and idols in India" apart what
> can be seen here is an example of falsification of historical record, done
> purposefully, with political agenda in mind."
>
> What do you think is the agenda ?
>
> To me, it all seems to be simple : 1. Whether the quoted words indicate
> replacement of older deities with Buddha, the Enlightened one or removal of
> idols is not clear.
>
> If the qoted words are to be interpreted as indicating removal of idols,
> then the logic is :  Dr Ambedkar was opposed to idol worship. He liked
> Buddhism and Asoka. He thought his favorites Buddhism and Asoka were also
> like himself opposed to idol worship.
>
> 2. Dr Ambedkar's focus was on how Brahmin influence on State affairs,
> alleged and theorized by him as the result of belief of queens in Village
> deities etc., was reduced from the time of Asoka.
>
> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:14 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> Dear Matthew,
>>
>> >> Asoka after embracing Buddhism discontinued this practice and removed
>> the idols of such deities.
>>
>> The meanig of the sentence is clear. According to Dr. Ambedkar Aśoka
>> 'removed the idols of such deities'.
>>
>> Removed - gently?
>>
>> The problem is that no edict mentions Aśoka stating:  "As I venerate the
>> Buddha, the Enlightened One, there is no need to worship any other deity".
>>
>> The question of 'the emergence of images and idols in India" apart what
>> can be seen here is an example of falsification of historical record, done
>> purposefully, with political agenda in mind.
>>
>> Artur
>>
>> 2017-05-26 18:21 GMT+02:00 Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>:
>>
>>> I have no idea about just what Dr. Ambedkar may have had in mind in
>>> regard to Asoka,
>>> but I do think that the question of the emergence of images and idols in
>>> India should be empirically focused.
>>>
>>> See, for instance, Michael Willis,
>>> The Archeology of Hindu Ritual: Temples and the Establishment of the
>>> Gods (Cambridge 2009).
>>>
>>> Although Willis prudently avoids the question of beginnings, some
>>> interesting suggestions may be gleaned
>>> from section 2.7 "From Private Sacrifice to Public Spectacle," pp.
>>> 113-122.
>>>
>>> One may also wish to consult, for evidence of deity-worship in early
>>> Buddhism, Robert DeCaroli,
>>> Haunting the Buddha: Indian Popular Religion and the Formation of
>>> Buddhism (OUP 2004).
>>>
>>> Matthew
>>>
>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>> Directeur d'études,
>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>>>
>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>> The University of Chicago
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>


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