Re: [INDOLOGY] mīmāṃsā

Wed Sep 21 04:10:33 UTC 2016

Dear Friends,

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond. I have a bit to read
with all of your thoughtful suggestions.

Andrew, thank you for the link and the discussion. I was quoting the author
from where I read this passage "were originally meant for a group of people
in a different time and place". The author does discuss the apaureṣeya
logic, but the above quote refers to this logic being culturally,
geographically and temporarily contingent, even if the idea is that it is
'outside of time'.

Nagaraj, I take your point that bhaktas, etc might not feel compelled to
act in this particular way. However, my ethnographic work in one
essentially bhakta community shows how they do privilege and conduct
regular yajñas because they have the impression that it is essentially a
dharmic duty that is central to help uphold ṛta. They also explain on their
website how they follow and promote a 'vedic way of life'. This phrase has
become ubiquitous within the marketing strategies of many yoga gurus and
organisations.  It is in my process of trying to understand what
constitutes a '21st century Vedic way of life' that I ask these questions.
Like you suggest, it is very complicated, and while a traditionalist
approach of a broader ritualist framework might work, I believe my
questions are still valid. Moreover, I find the framework you suggest makes
this process even more intriguing, even if you suggest on the one hand that
it is 'complicated' and than, on the other hand, as in your last email
suggest it is quite 'simple' (ie traditionalism), and that because I'm a
naive outsider to the tradition I just don't see it. At least I think that
is what you are suggesting? There are politico-religious influences that
also come into play that have seemingly nothing to do with ritual
traditionalism and more to do with the performance of a particular identity
that incorporates aspects of a re-imagined Vedic past as a way to gain
moral, cultural and political leverage, both domestically and
internationally.

At the moment I am trying to find the particular 'scriptural commandments'
that suggest conducting fire ceremonies, etc is obligatory, and understand
how these commandments and the practices still matter today to some people,
and how identities and meanings accrete around such floating signifiers as
'vedic'. I am interested in what impels and motivates people to want to
follow any particular practice or lifestyle?

My observations and interviews with a variety of participants indicates
that it is generally an aesthetic quality and, ultimately, the experience
of śāntarasa that people equate with experiencing through attending yajñas
(in this one ashram at least). While the discussions do not include
specific mention of rasas or rasavāda per se, they do include mentioning
that they feel more 'peaceful' as a result, and that the various 'elements'
are balanced, etc., and that this is a good thing for the individual,
community, nation (particularly a Hindu rāṣṭra), and world. However, I feel
this is more an internalisation of the community's orthopraxis and
discourse, which is then re-articulated as a strategy to gain acceptance
and legitimacy as a potential insider within this paramparā.  I do not
doubt the subjective experiences of the participants. Ultimately, it is the
emic perspective I aim to privilege and discuss.

Interestingly, the Vedic theology of debt, ie paying off the actions of the
ancestors through performing ceremonies, studying, initiation, etc is never
mentioned by the videśi practitioners. It is also hardly ever mentioned by
the deśi practitioners either, unless, perhaps they are trained in
karmakāṇḍa.

I guess, ultimately, my assertion is that no matter how 'Vedic' one says
their practice/lifestyle is, even if it includes yajñas, etc, it is more
'neo-Hindu' than truly 'Vedic'. I think this extends throughout the
ontological, epistemological and soteriological realms as well. Therefore,
I am trying to get a much better picture of what a 'Vedic way of life' may
have encapsulated through understanding better the foundational texts and
comparing that with the lived experiences of people today who assert their
'Vedic way of life' is more authentic than the yoga school/ashram down the
street.

I look at this domain where gurus offer information in 'spiritual packages'
through e-darśan, F2F darśan in satsaṅga, etc for 'seekers' today as a
'tidal zone of persuasion'. There are implicit market forces that prevent
certain discourses and practices from being mentioned or promoted because
they might not be consumed if it is too opaque and culturally/temporally
contingent Vedic injunctions. People might lose interest quicker than
expected, especially if their ideas of a 'Vedic lifestyle' do not match
with those of the consumers of this lifestyle. But, if the message is too
watered down then it loses its 'authenticity'. For instance, any feminist
or queer critique of a Vedic theology *might* create problems for the
contemporary 'universalist' assertions often promoted.

The bhakti tradition is a veritable springboard for modern postural yoga
practitioners to enter this 'way of life' and extend their 'yoga practice'
beyond āsana/prāṇāyāma + samyama. But as we know, the bhakti tradition is a
much later development, and yet it is often included in marketing as a
central component of a 'Vedic lifestyle'. Increasingly, I see the inclusion
of kīrtana as becoming emblematic of a more 'authentic' and 'wholesome'
yoga practice. In Sydney, there are several yoga studios which market their
brand of yoga by also offering kīrtana or 'yoga events' that include
kīrtana. This strategy for creating distinction is a somewhat recent trend
in the Australian yoga scene that of course only appeals to a certain kind
of practitioner. Yet, I would argue that for some has become the measuring
stick for how 'authentic' one's yoga practice can become. If we dare
include Malhotra's 'U-turn Theory' into the discussion of cultural
appropriation things become even more *interesting*. But I'm not that
inspired by this theory.

Perhaps, I have said too much. I just wanted to say I really do appreciate
this community and value the opportunity to exchange ideas and ask
questions. I continue to learn so much from you.

Thanks again.

All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200

Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney

academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>

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Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

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A Day in our Ashram
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Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:18 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Patrick,
>
> > I thought I might find some help here in locating the passages I seek.
>
> By mīmāmsā, if you mean the original book of the darśana on which all the
> books known as mīmāmsā books are composed, you do not get any passages as
> you sought. The book is in the form of sūtras. .
>
> If you saw a passage as you mentioned, it must be a book interpreting or
> discussing the sūtras.
>
> śāstra compelling someone to act in a certain way is a complex issue.
> Depending on which sampradāya a person follows, and the varṇa and āśrama to
> which one considers oneself belonging, feeling oneself  compelled
> by śāstra to follow karmakānḍa varies.
>
> For example, a sannyāsi of advaita or a follower of certain Bhakti
> tradition may not feel compelled that way.
>
> You might want to know the complexity of these details.
>
> A list member may guide you to a publication discussing such details.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Krishnaprasad G <
> krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For beginners Arthasangraha is better. Especially the translation and
>> notes by A.B Gajendragadkar and R.D Karmarmakar is very lucid and clear
>>
>> On Sep 20, 2016 9:17 AM, "patrick mccartney" <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Friends,
>>>
>>> I find myself intrigued by the idea that there are people today
>>> compelled to carry on the karmakāṇḑa rituals.
>>>
>>> I read a brief passage that alludes to the mīmāṃsā thought-world as
>>> providing textual evidence and injunctions for this practice of reenacting
>>> scriptural commandments, which were originally meant for a group of people
>>> in a different time and place. However, it only mentions mīmāṃsā and does
>>> not mention any specific author or text.
>>>
>>> I would like to read this text but, as I know very little about mīmāṃsā
>>> I do not really know where to start. I thought I might find some help here
>>> in locating the passages I seek.
>>>
>>> Thank you for your help.
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>> Fellow
>>> School of Culture, History & Language
>>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>>> The Australian National University
>>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>>
>>>
>>> Skype - psdmccartney
>>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>>
>>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>
>>> Linkedin
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>
>>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>
>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>
>>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>>
>>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>>
>>> Ep 3 - Jalam ≠ Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>>
>>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>>
>>> A Day in our Ashram
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>>
>>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>>
>>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>>
>>> One of my favourite song
>>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
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>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>

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