[INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit

Mon Sep 19 01:22:26 UTC 2016

>
Correction: Please read
But the traditional scholars among whom Sanskrit has been surviving as
spoken language through a paramparaa do not find problem with *sandhis are
long compounds*.

as

But the traditional scholars among whom Sanskrit has been surviving as
spoken language through a paramparaa do not find problem with *sandhis or
long compounds*.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Yes, some of the spoken Sanskrit activists believe in your approach.
>
> But the traditional scholars among whom Sanskrit has been surviving as
> spoken language through a paramparaa do not find problem with sandhis are
> long compounds.
>
> My observation is, even the new learners once they get the hang of it,
> enjoy doing sandhis and using long compounds, using idiomatic ways such as
> passive voice (in contrast to the preference for active voice in a fresh
> learner), bahuvreehis etc.
>
> If you see the language of the plays both in Prakrit and Sanskrit
> portions, there is a balance. Sandhis are not broken. But too long
> compounds are avoided.
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 2:11 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> Nagaraj:
>>
>> > But in Sanskrit it does not work that way.
>>
>> If you'd want to revive Sanskrit as a spoken language, it would have to
>> work that way.
>>
>> No sandhi in writing; absolutely minimal number of compounds.
>>
>> 2016-09-18 20:48 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Perhaps you have something like bon après-midi   in mind, where words
>>> are separated from each other in writing, but sandhi is applied during
>>> pronunciation only. But in Sanskrit it does not work that way.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <
>>> nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let us take the example of रामः च and रामः चरति ।
>>>>
>>>> For ease of communication, saying रामः चरति may seem better (than
>>>> रामश्चरति). But even for ease of communication, रामः च does not look good (
>>>> रामश्च is the only way you can say that) .
>>>>
>>>> But this question of ease of communication is only modern. रामश्चरति is
>>>> natural.
>>>>
>>>> Visandhika pronunciation turns out to be even 'wrong' in compound words
>>>> such as विद्युच्छक्तिः ( विद्युत् शक्तिः is not correct. )
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> भिन्नै रागमदर्शनैः भिन्नै स्स्वतर्ककृतदर्शनै र्न खलु!
>>>>>
>>>>> -aiḥ or -air before bhinnais?
>>>>>
>>>>> Have pity on me and remove my doubts,
>>>>>
>>>>> Artur
>>>>>
>>>>> PS. Being a Pole and a habitual user of an inflected language, I'd
>>>>> tend to write:
>>>>>
>>>>> bhinn*ai**ḥ* ...darśan*ai**ḥ* ...bhinn*ai**ḥ  .*..darśan*ai**ḥ*
>>>>>
>>>>> In languages such as Polish (and other Slavic languages) the rules
>>>>> how word-endings are to be pronounced when in contact with other words (-
>>>>> *air*, *-air*,  *-ais*, *-air*) do not interfere with the rules of
>>>>> writing.
>>>>>
>>>>> phonological vs. phonetic
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-09-18 10:23 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> भिन्नै रागमदर्शनैः भिन्नै स्स्वतर्ककृतदर्शनै र्न खलु!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Jan E.M. Houben <
>>>>>> jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Ananya,
>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing this valuable argument and position, which not
>>>>>>> only deserves close and critical attention of Sanskritists all over the
>>>>>>> world, it also deserves to be translated, at least for its main outlines,
>>>>>>> into Hindi, Urdu and especially Sanskrit, in order to reach those most
>>>>>>> directly concerned.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
>>>>>>> “It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
>>>>>>> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular
>>>>>>> state and its
>>>>>>> egalitarian Constitution.”
>>>>>>> How to say this in Sanskrit?
>>>>>>> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
>>>>>>> संस्कृतं भागमेव सर्वस्य योधनीयवस्तुनः,
>>>>>>> भारतस्य नानाविधत्व-व्यापकत्व-लौकिकत्वानां च
>>>>>>> तत्साम्यलक्षितसंविधानस्य च रक्षणार्थम् ।
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After all, why should we systematically refuse to speak the language
>>>>>>> of those about whom we are discussing ? Nevertheless, in Sanskrit studies
>>>>>>> this is exactly what has been going on since at least the beginning of the
>>>>>>> 19th century.
>>>>>>> And was it not precisely the exclusive focus on the archival
>>>>>>> function and the systematic neglect of the communicative function of
>>>>>>> Sanskrit which contributed significantly to its antiquarianization and to
>>>>>>> the complete marginalization of contemporaneous carriers of the Sanskrit
>>>>>>> tradition?
>>>>>>> Q: Was Sanskrit then a living language or means of communication
>>>>>>> when it was discovered by westerners ? R: A crucial personality is here
>>>>>>> Melputtūr Nārāyaṇa Bhaṭṭa : on the one hand he argued, in the beginning of
>>>>>>> the 17th century, for a liberal approach to Sanskrit grammar and gives a
>>>>>>> Pāṇinian grammar of “living” Sanskrit
>>>>>>> -- see “Pāṇinian grammar of living Sanskrit”:
>>>>>>> www.academia.edu/28515426 --
>>>>>>> on the other hand he was aware of westerners who show both lack of
>>>>>>> respect and curiosity for Brahmins (tantudhārin) and their teachings (C.
>>>>>>> Rajendran 2008: 64 referring to Prabandhamañjarī ed. N.P. Unni p. 295-296).
>>>>>>> In order to deal AT ONCE with the lack of awareness of Sanskrit and
>>>>>>> its precious heritage outside India (not counting the very small number of
>>>>>>> specialists dispersed over a few academic institutions) AND the danger of
>>>>>>> its one-sided excess within India, I propose to invoke the regulatory
>>>>>>> concept of “ideodiversity” (मत-विविधता, which, within cultural and
>>>>>>> intellectual evolution, is or could be what “biodiversity” जैव-विविधता is
>>>>>>> within biological evolution):
>>>>>>> see my article “La ideodiversidad como valor planetario”
>>>>>>> which recently appeared in: Eadem utraque Europa : revista de
>>>>>>> historia cultural e intelectual,
>>>>>>> Año 12, No. 17, Agosto 2016, ISSN 1885-7221, pp. 11-42, trilingual
>>>>>>> summary at
>>>>>>> www.academia.edu/28565726
>>>>>>> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by
>>>>>>> referring to the view of Bhartrhari
>>>>>>> prajñā vivekaṁ labhate bhinnair āgama-darśanaiḥ |
>>>>>>> kiyad vā śakyam unnetuṁ svatarkam anudhāvatā ||
>>>>>>> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in
>>>>>>> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary metrical
>>>>>>> clumsiness in pāda a ; to write a metrically more smooth pāda a would not
>>>>>>> have been that difficult, for instance : prajñā vivekitāṁ yāti)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Directeur d’Études
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *École Pratique des Hautes Études*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CS 20525 – 75005 Paris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.ephe.fr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 15 September 2016 at 14:27, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts",
>>>>>>>> is just out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live
>>>>>>>> online <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is
>>>>>>>> a direct link <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to
>>>>>>>> my article in it, titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Return of Sanskrit
>>>>>>>> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India’s New Culture Wars
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya
>>>>>>>> Janata Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She
>>>>>>>> argues that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
>>>>>>>> government’s manipulation of this ancient language.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks and all best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ananya Vajpeyi. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
>>>>>>>> *Fellow*
>>>>>>>> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
>>>>>>>> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
>>>>>>>> *New Delhi 110054*
>>>>>>>> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
>>>>>>>> *ext: 229*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>
>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>
>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>
>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>
>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>

-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

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