[INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit

Mon Sep 19 01:19:38 UTC 2016

Yes, some of the spoken Sanskrit activists believe in your approach.

But the traditional scholars among whom Sanskrit has been surviving as
spoken language through a paramparaa do not find problem with sandhis are
long compounds.

My observation is, even the new learners once they get the hang of it,
enjoy doing sandhis and using long compounds, using idiomatic ways such as
passive voice (in contrast to the preference for active voice in a fresh
learner), bahuvreehis etc.

If you see the language of the plays both in Prakrit and Sanskrit portions,
there is a balance. Sandhis are not broken. But too long compounds are
avoided.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 2:11 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> Nagaraj:
>
> > But in Sanskrit it does not work that way.
>
> If you'd want to revive Sanskrit as a spoken language, it would have to
> work that way.
>
> No sandhi in writing; absolutely minimal number of compounds.
>
> 2016-09-18 20:48 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>
>> Perhaps you have something like bon après-midi   in mind, where words
>> are separated from each other in writing, but sandhi is applied during
>> pronunciation only. But in Sanskrit it does not work that way.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Let us take the example of रामः च and रामः चरति ।
>>>
>>> For ease of communication, saying रामः चरति may seem better (than
>>> रामश्चरति). But even for ease of communication, रामः च does not look good (
>>> रामश्च is the only way you can say that) .
>>>
>>> But this question of ease of communication is only modern. रामश्चरति is
>>> natural.
>>>
>>> Visandhika pronunciation turns out to be even 'wrong' in compound words
>>> such as विद्युच्छक्तिः ( विद्युत् शक्तिः is not correct. )
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> भिन्नै रागमदर्शनैः भिन्नै स्स्वतर्ककृतदर्शनै र्न खलु!
>>>>
>>>> -aiḥ or -air before bhinnais?
>>>>
>>>> Have pity on me and remove my doubts,
>>>>
>>>> Artur
>>>>
>>>> PS. Being a Pole and a habitual user of an inflected language, I'd tend
>>>> to write:
>>>>
>>>> bhinn*ai**ḥ* ...darśan*ai**ḥ* ...bhinn*ai**ḥ  .*..darśan*ai**ḥ*
>>>>
>>>> In languages such as Polish (and other Slavic languages) the rules how
>>>> word-endings are to be pronounced when in contact with other words (-
>>>> *air*, *-air*,  *-ais*, *-air*) do not interfere with the rules of
>>>> writing.
>>>>
>>>> phonological vs. phonetic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2016-09-18 10:23 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> भिन्नै रागमदर्शनैः भिन्नै स्स्वतर्ककृतदर्शनै र्न खलु!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Ananya,
>>>>>> Thanks for sharing this valuable argument and position, which not
>>>>>> only deserves close and critical attention of Sanskritists all over the
>>>>>> world, it also deserves to be translated, at least for its main outlines,
>>>>>> into Hindi, Urdu and especially Sanskrit, in order to reach those most
>>>>>> directly concerned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
>>>>>> “It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
>>>>>> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular
>>>>>> state and its
>>>>>> egalitarian Constitution.”
>>>>>> How to say this in Sanskrit?
>>>>>> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
>>>>>> संस्कृतं भागमेव सर्वस्य योधनीयवस्तुनः,
>>>>>> भारतस्य नानाविधत्व-व्यापकत्व-लौकिकत्वानां च तत्साम्यलक्षितसंविधानस्य
>>>>>> च रक्षणार्थम् ।
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After all, why should we systematically refuse to speak the language
>>>>>> of those about whom we are discussing ? Nevertheless, in Sanskrit studies
>>>>>> this is exactly what has been going on since at least the beginning of the
>>>>>> 19th century.
>>>>>> And was it not precisely the exclusive focus on the archival function
>>>>>> and the systematic neglect of the communicative function of Sanskrit which
>>>>>> contributed significantly to its antiquarianization and to the complete
>>>>>> marginalization of contemporaneous carriers of the Sanskrit tradition?
>>>>>> Q: Was Sanskrit then a living language or means of communication when
>>>>>> it was discovered by westerners ? R: A crucial personality is here
>>>>>> Melputtūr Nārāyaṇa Bhaṭṭa : on the one hand he argued, in the beginning of
>>>>>> the 17th century, for a liberal approach to Sanskrit grammar and gives a
>>>>>> Pāṇinian grammar of “living” Sanskrit
>>>>>> -- see “Pāṇinian grammar of living Sanskrit”:
>>>>>> www.academia.edu/28515426 --
>>>>>> on the other hand he was aware of westerners who show both lack of
>>>>>> respect and curiosity for Brahmins (tantudhārin) and their teachings (C.
>>>>>> Rajendran 2008: 64 referring to Prabandhamañjarī ed. N.P. Unni p. 295-296).
>>>>>> In order to deal AT ONCE with the lack of awareness of Sanskrit and
>>>>>> its precious heritage outside India (not counting the very small number of
>>>>>> specialists dispersed over a few academic institutions) AND the danger of
>>>>>> its one-sided excess within India, I propose to invoke the regulatory
>>>>>> concept of “ideodiversity” (मत-विविधता, which, within cultural and
>>>>>> intellectual evolution, is or could be what “biodiversity” जैव-विविधता is
>>>>>> within biological evolution):
>>>>>> see my article “La ideodiversidad como valor planetario”
>>>>>> which recently appeared in: Eadem utraque Europa : revista de
>>>>>> historia cultural e intelectual,
>>>>>> Año 12, No. 17, Agosto 2016, ISSN 1885-7221, pp. 11-42, trilingual
>>>>>> summary at
>>>>>> www.academia.edu/28565726
>>>>>> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by referring
>>>>>> to the view of Bhartrhari
>>>>>> prajñā vivekaṁ labhate bhinnair āgama-darśanaiḥ |
>>>>>> kiyad vā śakyam unnetuṁ svatarkam anudhāvatā ||
>>>>>> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in
>>>>>> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary metrical
>>>>>> clumsiness in pāda a ; to write a metrically more smooth pāda a would not
>>>>>> have been that difficult, for instance : prajñā vivekitāṁ yāti)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Directeur d’Études
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *École Pratique des Hautes Études*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CS 20525 – 75005 Paris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.ephe.fr
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 15 September 2016 at 14:27, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts",
>>>>>>> is just out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live
>>>>>>> online <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is a direct
>>>>>>> link <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to my
>>>>>>> article in it, titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Return of Sanskrit
>>>>>>> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India’s New Culture Wars
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya
>>>>>>> Janata Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She
>>>>>>> argues that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
>>>>>>> government’s manipulation of this ancient language.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks and all best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ananya Vajpeyi. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
>>>>>>> *Fellow*
>>>>>>> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
>>>>>>> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
>>>>>>> *New Delhi 110054*
>>>>>>> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
>>>>>>> *ext: 229*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>>
>>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>>
>>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>>
>>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>>
>>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

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