[INDOLOGY] by chance, accidentally

Tue May 17 08:16:49 UTC 2016

Nagaraj Paturi wrote:

>> ... many key events in Ramayana and Mahabharata are attributed to pure
chance and power of fate.

I think one needs to differentiate between 'chance' and 'fate'.

Artur

2016-05-17 10:12 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>:

> When Sati's body is dismembered - do parts of it fall down on the earth
> according to some plan? Or - is their dispersal purely accidental?
> Legitimating in this way the haphazard geography of old (tribal) shrines
> devoted to female divinities?
>
> Does Garuda lose the four drops of amrita in a planned way? Or - are they
> lost by pure chance? Do they land - purely accidentally - in places
> possessing - by pure chance - terrain features suitable for establishing
> large pilgrimage centers?
>
> Artur
>
> PS. I try to recall the mythical (puranic?) narrative, no success. A king,
> meets someone, purely accidentally, has sex with that person, and that
> results in his becoming pregnant. And, after nine months, a child is born,
> out of its father/mother's left side. Now - what happened to the child?
>
> A,
>
> 2016-05-17 9:25 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>
>> 3. the aspect of pure chance in ancient Sanskrit narratives.
>> Mrichchhakatika is where the author clearly mentions bhavitavyataa as one
>> of the themes of the play. The entire play has a series of dramatic turns
>> of events each of which occur just by pure chance.
>>
>> Element of fate in Shakespeare's plays is a widely discussed theme. I
>> guess that this could have inspired some to take up a similar theme with
>> regard to Sanskrit plays.
>>
>> Many s'aapa events in Sanskrit narratives involve 'pure chance', and the
>> s'aapa turns out to be the cause for later events. Dasaratha getting cursed
>> by Sravanakumara's parents is just by pure chance. But it is this curse
>> which causes Rama's vanavaasa and all the later events.
>>
>> In Pratimaa naaTakam , Bhasa makes Kaikeyi plead innocence in front of
>> Bharata who was angry with him, blaming her demands on the power of the
>> curse and makes Bharata say, "this has scope for a lot of thinking " (
>> something like "good point!")
>>
>> In popular exegesis in India, quite often taking the form of folk songs,
>> many key events in Ramayana and Mahabharata are attributed to pure chance
>> and power of fate.
>>
>> Good topic if not yet covered.
>>
>> On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 9:03 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 1.  something, some event, that happened accidentally, by pure chance -
>>> but, finally, had the power to  influence the development of the Indian
>>> Civilization (in the spheres of thought, religion, social relations, etc.)?
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> 2. Status of "(pure, sheer) chance" in Indian thought?
>>>
>>> are entirely two different things.
>>>
>>> #1 seems to be a question on Indian history, #2 on Indian thought.
>>>
>>> Prof. Resnick brought yet another issue: 3. the aspect of pure chance in
>>> ancient Sanskrit narratives.
>>>
>>> #2 & #3 could be considered as connected.
>>>
>>> #1 need not be connected to #2  & #3.
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 4:32 AM, Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Interesting question. In the Maha-bharata, for example, human effort —
>>>> purusha-kAra — is contrasted with daiva — providence/divine intervention or
>>>> will. In Bhagavad-gita 9.10, we find the statement that “Prakrti begets…by
>>>> my supervision/oversight (adhy-aksha)." In the Gita 13.21, and elsewhere,
>>>> we find a two part concept of causality that matches the twin ontology of
>>>> body and soul. Not to speak of the philosophical implications of karma.
>>>>
>>>> These are well known approaches to causality.
>>>>
>>>> I am also curious to know to what extent Indian tradition has
>>>> considered pure chance, sometimes called yadRcchA, or adverbially akasmAt,
>>>> to be a legitimate cause of events or conditions in this world.
>>>>
>>>> Howard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 16, 2016, at 11:32 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Colleagues.
>>>>
>>>> one more question.
>>>>
>>>> Do you know of something, some event, that happened accidentally, by
>>>> pure chance - but, finally, had the power to  influence the development of
>>>> the Indian Civilization (in the spheres of thought, religion, social
>>>> relations, etc.)?
>>>>
>>>> Status of "(pure, sheer) chance" in Indian thought?
>>>>
>>>> Artur Karp
>>>>
>>>> Poland
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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