[INDOLOGY] Fwd: From the Mahabharata

Artur Karp karp at uw.edu.pl
Thu Apr 28 15:29:44 UTC 2016


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Justin Fifield <fifield at g.harvard.edu>
Date: 2016-04-28 16:29 GMT+02:00
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] From the Mahabharata
To: Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>


Dear Dr. Karp,

I attempted to post this message to Indology last night in response to your
query, but I don't think it worked.  Please find it reproduced below.

Best wishes to you,
Justin Fifield

Visiting Instructor in Religion
Kalamazoo College

-------

Dear Colleagues,

Fascinating conversation.  It reminds me of a story in the Mahāvastu
(Jones' translation attached) on a similar theme: the triumph of
hospitality over miserliness with food.  In this case the brahman (named
Kauśika) is the Buddha in a past life, but the situation is the same.
Similar too is the fact that the guests are merely the gods testing the
brahman's virtue.

A series of guests (gods in disguise) come to Kauśika to ask for food, but
Kauśika replies each time:

nāhaṃ kriṇāmi nāpi vikriṇāmi na cāpi me sannidhi asti kiṃcit* /
parīttarūpaṃ mama bhojanaṃ imaṃ syāmākaprasthaṃ nalam eṣo duvinnaṃ //
(Senart, 2.49)

"I neither buy nor yet do I sell.  I have no store of food at all.  The
food I have is scanty; 'tis but a small measure of grain and not enough for
two." (Jones, 2.47)

And the recurring response of the guest is (in part):

natvāhaṃ kauśika brūmi bhuṃjāhi ca dadāhi ca /
āryamārgasamāpanno ekāṃśaṃ vindate sukhaṃ // (Senart, 2.50)

"I tell you, Kauśika, to eat only after sharing.  Thus will you enter on
the noble path.  He finds no happiness who lives for himself." (Jones, 2.47)

Eventually, when the gods reveal themselves, Kauśika is "converted" to this
dharma, expressed thus:

eṣo adyaivaṃ kariṣyāmi puṇyaṃ dāsyāmi dānaṃ śramaṇabrāhmaṇeṣu /
etehi dadyād aham annapānaṃ nāhaṃ adattvā amṛtaṃ pi pāsye //
evaṃ ca me dadato sarvakālaṃ bhogā ca me ca sarvā kṣipihanti /
tato ahaṃ sugatiṃ pravrajiṣyaṃ prahāya kāmāni tathādhikāni // (Senart, 2.53)

"Now this very day I shall begin to live a life of virtue and make gifts to
brāhmans and recluses.  I shall give them meat and drink.  I would not even
drink ambrosia without first sharing it.
"As I thus give at all times, all my wealth will soon be spent.  Hence I
shall pass to a state of bliss, having cast away these inordinate desires
of mine." (Jones, 2.50)

Food for thought....

Best wishes,
Justin Fifield

Visiting Instructor in Religion
Kalamazoo College


On 4/26/2016 5:18 AM, Artur Karp wrote:

Dear Nagaraj,

Motive and method.

motive: atithi-seva ---> if selfless, ultimate Liberation; method:
bubhukSAjaya (bubhukSA with its load of feelings/emotions - put in there in
the process of its formation as a *desiderative* derivate)

Would *THAT* make sense?

Artur

2016-04-26 10:42 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:

> >The question is: *how *do you keep your hunger under control?
>
> --- Sri Nityanandji has already said:
>
> Therefore, to me the essence of “conquering hunger” in this context is not
> abstention from food even when the body is hungry, rather it refers to the
> Brāhmaṇa family's [one-time] act of upholding atithi-dharma and feeding a
> hungry guest even though the family was itself hungry. The host Brāhmaṇa
> and his family conquered their own hunger to satisfy the hunger of a guest.
>
> So
> *how *do you keep your hunger under control?
>
> -- by prioritizing some other motive /drive than hunger, hunger gets
> automatically controlled.
>
> A student skipping his meal on account of being absorbed in his
> book-reading in the library, a scientist not feeling his hunger on account
> of his immersion in his experiment in the laboratory can be said to have
> bubukShaajaya.
>
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> Dear Nagaraj,
>>
>>
>> >> It means *one who keeps one's hunger under one's control* .
>>
>> The question is: *how *do you keep your hunger under control?
>>
>> To my mind (basing on my certainly simplistic concept of my own mental
>> processes) - by taking control of, by overcoming the emotions/feelings
>> generated by the sensation of hunger, that is - the physiological need to
>> eat food.
>>
>> And these emotions/feelings are - not necessarily distinctly - expressed
>>  by the poet's choice of a desiderative derivate form.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>>
>> Greg O'Toole said somewhere: "What is necessary is that the terms and
>> other variables in a conversation be clarified and agreed on by *all
>> participants in this conversation*."
>>
>> Extending my  sincere gratitude to all participants in *this here*
>> conversation. Learning has no end.
>>
>> Artur Karp
>>
>> Warszawa
>> Polska
>>
>> 2016-04-26 8:59 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi < <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu sa svargaṃ jayate dhruvam
>>>
>>> bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu  does not mean one who loses hunger or one who
>>> can stay without being hungry. It means one who keeps one's hunger under
>>> one's control .
>>>
>>> kṣudhā nirṇudati prajñāṃ dharmyāṃ buddhiṃ vyapohati
>>>
>>>
>>> means uncontrolled hunger destroys one's wisdom and drives off one's
>>> righteous understanding.
>>>
>>> Issue is bubhukShaajaya and not bubhukShaateevrataa or
>>> bubhukShaasaumyataa.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Masterly exposition.
>>>>
>>>> But (I already used this twice, sorry), there is always a but lurking
>>>> there, somewhere behind the screens.
>>>>
>>>> How do you measure 'desire'?
>>>>
>>>> To my uneducated (no Amarakoṣa in the list of necessary readings) mind
>>>> the desiderative form itself guarantees the connection between the
>>>> word and the idea of desire.
>>>>
>>>>  'lipsā' - ‘labdhum *icchā*’ is self-explanatory.
>>>>
>>>> How intense the desire is - it's all a matter of context.
>>>>
>>>> Let me guess: in certain contexts 'lipsā' could be used to describe a
>>>> momentary, inconsequential wish, to obtain something without explicit
>>>> effort ; in other contexts, perhaps, the wish to obtain something of
>>>> lasting value, the act itself coldly planned for.
>>>>
>>>> Same for ‘bubhukṣā’ - intensity of the desire depends on the context.
>>>>
>>>> Who *bubhukṣāṃ jayate*  - that person overcomes the feelings, the
>>>> emotions that are linked with enjoyment of food. In our example - quite
>>>> strong emotions, considering "the season of great difficulty".
>>>>
>>>> "The choice of food metaphor in the context of bliss hails from a
>>>> tradition going back to Upaniṣads, where the experience of bliss was
>>>> linked with enjoyment of food" [V. Aklujkar, *Sharing the Divine Feast*,
>>>> in: R.S. Khare (ed.), *The Eternal Food: Gastronomic Ideas and
>>>> Experience of Hindus and Buddhists*, 1992, p. 99]
>>>>
>>>> The epic story tellers  do not want their heroes to be perfect, and go
>>>> around trying to do things in the "grammatick" way; they supply them with
>>>> words - to use as they see fit, not always properly; their heroes act, they
>>>> are full of, more often than not, only dimly felt emotions, and they act on
>>>> them, and are known to commit mistakes.
>>>>
>>>> And that is why we like them, and want to hear more about them, again
>>>> and again
>>>>
>>>> Let them have their emotions.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Artur
>>>>
>>>> 2016-04-26 3:37 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra < <nmisra at gmail.com>
>>>> nmisra at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25 April 2016 at 18:58, Howard Resnick < <hr at ivs.edu>hr at ivs.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The desiderative at times is used to indicate strong desire. Example:
>>>>>> desiderative forms of labh — lipsu, lipsA. In MW, this can mean the simple
>>>>>> desire to gain or obtain, or “longing for”. To long — to have “a strong
>>>>>> wish or desire.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Howard
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Monier Williams has errors. An example is meaning of the gavī as an
>>>>> “independent word” for speech and the citation of Śiśupālavadha 2-68 which
>>>>> is incorrect. In this case (‘lipsā’) there is no precise citation also.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The etymology (yoga) of ‘lipsā’ (‘labdhum icchā’, labh + san + a + ṭāp)
>>>>> does not suggest any intensity in the desire. If one wants to go for usage
>>>>> (rūḍhi), it is better to cross-check with Sanskrit Koṣa-s and
>>>>> attested usages than take M-W for granted.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As per Amarakoṣa (1-7-27,28), there is a clear distinction between
>>>>> ‘lipsā’ which is listed with words for desire, and ‘lālasā’ which is
>>>>> explained as intense desire or longing (grammar would confirm this):
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ……………………………………………………………. dohadam
>>>>>
>>>>> icchā kāṅkṣā spṛhehā tṛḍvāñchā lipsā manorathaḥ
>>>>>
>>>>> kāmo’bhilāṣastarṣaśca *so’tyarthaṃ lālasā dvayoḥ*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Vyākhyāsudhā on above verses explains that the first twelve are
>>>>> synonyms of ‘icchā’ (and also ) and the word ‘lālasā’ is a synonym of
>>>>> ‘atiprīti’
>>>>>
>>>>> If any other authentic Koṣa or commentary on a Kāvya usage confirms
>>>>> that ‘longing’ or ‘intense desire’ is also a meaning of ‘lipsā’, M-W can be
>>>>> accepted. Same for ‘bubhukṣā’.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



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