Dear Nagaraj,
Motive and method.
motive: atithi-seva ---> if selfless, ultimate Liberation; method: bubhukSAjaya (bubhukSA with its load of feelings/emotions - put in there in the process of its formation as a desiderative derivate)
Would THAT make sense?
Artur
2016-04-26 10:42 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>:
>The question is: how do you keep your hunger under control?
--- Sri Nityanandji has already said:
Therefore, to me the essence of “conquering hunger” in this context is not abstention from food even when the body is hungry, rather it refers to the Brāhmaṇa family's [one-time] act of upholding atithi-dharma and feeding a hungry guest even though the family was itself hungry. The host Brāhmaṇa and his family conquered their own hunger to satisfy the hunger of a guest.
Sohow do you keep your hunger under control?
-- by prioritizing some other motive /drive than hunger, hunger gets automatically controlled.
A student skipping his meal on account of being absorbed in his book-reading in the library, a scientist not feeling his hunger on account of his immersion in his experiment in the laboratory can be said to have bubukShaajaya.
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Artur Karp <karp@uw.edu.pl> wrote:
Dear Nagaraj,
>> It means one who keeps one's hunger under one's control .
The question is: how do you keep your hunger under control?
To my mind (basing on my certainly simplistic concept of my own mental processes) - by taking control of, by overcoming the emotions/feelings generated by the sensation of hunger, that is - the physiological need to eat food.
And these emotions/feelings are - not necessarily distinctly - expressed by the poet's choice of a desiderative derivate form.
----------------------------------------------
Greg O'Toole said somewhere: "What is necessary is that the terms and other variables in a conversation be clarified and agreed on by all participants in this conversation."
Extending my sincere gratitude to all participants in this here conversation. Learning has no end.
Artur Karp
WarszawaPolska
2016-04-26 8:59 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>:
bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu sa svargaṃ jayate dhruvam
bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu does not mean one who loses hunger or one who can stay without being hungry. It means one who keeps one's hunger under one's control .
kṣudhā nirṇudati prajñāṃ dharmyāṃ buddhiṃ vyapohati
means uncontrolled hunger destroys one's wisdom and drives off one's righteous understanding.
Issue is bubhukShaajaya and not bubhukShaateevrataa or bubhukShaasaumyataa.
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Artur Karp <karp@uw.edu.pl> wrote:
_______________________________________________Masterly exposition.
But (I already used this twice, sorry), there is always a but lurking there, somewhere behind the screens.
How do you measure 'desire'?
To my uneducated (no Amarakoṣa in the list of necessary readings) mind the desiderative form itself guarantees the connection between the word and the idea of desire.
'lipsā' - ‘labdhum icchā’ is self-explanatory.
How intense the desire is - it's all a matter of context.
Let me guess: in certain contexts 'lipsā' could be used to describe a momentary, inconsequential wish, to obtain something without explicit effort ; in other contexts, perhaps, the wish to obtain something of lasting value, the act itself coldly planned for.
Same for ‘bubhukṣā’ - intensity of the desire depends on the context.
Who bubhukṣāṃ jayate - that person overcomes the feelings, the emotions that are linked with enjoyment of food. In our example - quite strong emotions, considering "the season of great difficulty".
"The choice of food metaphor in the context of bliss hails from a tradition going back to Upaniṣads, where the experience of bliss was linked with enjoyment of food" [V. Aklujkar, Sharing the Divine Feast, in: R.S. Khare (ed.), The Eternal Food: Gastronomic Ideas and Experience of Hindus and Buddhists, 1992, p. 99]
The epic story tellers do not want their heroes to be perfect, and go around trying to do things in the "grammatick" way; they supply them with words - to use as they see fit, not always properly; their heroes act, they are full of, more often than not, only dimly felt emotions, and they act on them, and are known to commit mistakes.
And that is why we like them, and want to hear more about them, again and again
Let them have their emotions.
Best,
Artur
2016-04-26 3:37 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra <nmisra@gmail.com>:
On 25 April 2016 at 18:58, Howard Resnick <hr@ivs.edu> wrote:
The desiderative at times is used to indicate strong desire. Example: desiderative forms of labh — lipsu, lipsA. In MW, this can mean the simple desire to gain or obtain, or “longing for”. To long — to have “a strong wish or desire.”
Best,Howard
Monier Williams has errors. An example is meaning of the gavī as an “independent word” for speech and the citation of Śiśupālavadha 2-68 which is incorrect. In this case (‘lipsā’) there is no precise citation also.
The etymology (yoga) of ‘lipsā’ (‘labdhum icchā’, labh + san + a + ṭāp) does not suggest any intensity in the desire. If one wants to go for usage (rūḍhi), it is better to cross-check with Sanskrit Koṣa-s and attested usages than take M-W for granted.
As per Amarakoṣa (1-7-27,28), there is a clear distinction between ‘lipsā’ which is listed with words for desire, and ‘lālasā’ which is explained as intense desire or longing (grammar would confirm this):
……………………………………………………………. dohadam
icchā kāṅkṣā spṛhehā tṛḍvāñchā lipsā manorathaḥ
kāmo’bhilāṣastarṣaśca so’tyarthaṃ lālasā dvayoḥ
The Vyākhyāsudhā on above verses explains that the first twelve are synonyms of ‘icchā’ (and also ) and the word ‘lālasā’ is a synonym of ‘atiprīti’
If any other authentic Koṣa or commentary on a Kāvya usage confirms that ‘longing’ or ‘intense desire’ is also a meaning of ‘lipsā’, M-W can be accepted. Same for ‘bubhukṣā’.
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
indology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
--
Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.Former Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
--
Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.Former Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
_______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY@list.indology.info indology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)