[INDOLOGY] Eating flesh of a jogi, a magician, a healer

Wed Apr 27 05:16:33 UTC 2016

The narrative under question is a legend. Legends are a genre of folk
narratives. They differ from 'history' in having unrealistic and
scientifically not verified elements. Dhanthar Baid is such a character
without historical evidence. The 'visionary' (dreamlike and as such
requiring symbolic interpretation , are part of legends as much as of the
other genres of folk narratives.

One of the distinctions of modern studies of culture in contrast to
traditional localized studies of the native cultures by the natives, is
comparative study.

For such a comparison we may have to look at the motifs of cannibalism in
cultures outside India. The following links provide some such information:

http://listverse.com/2012/12/05/top-10-truly-disturbing-fairy-tales/

http://www.cracked.com/article_15962_the-gruesome-origins-5-popular-fairy-tales.html
http://www.cultcase.com/2008/09/five-creepy-cannibalism-themes-in.html

Sharing pdf of a dissertation and snapshots of an Encyclopedia article.

For a comparative study of historical interpretations of cannibalism in
reality, the following links may be useful:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-gruesome-history-of-eating-corpses-as-medicine-82360284/

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/europes-hypocritical-history-of-cannibalism-42642371/?no-ist
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2141858/Tough-news-swallow-Europeans-saw-wrong-cannibalism-1900s-new-books-claim.html

Comparative studies may help in understanding both commonalities and
distinct specifics.

To understand each of the compared cultures in their own right, other
components of each of the cultural complex may help.

-N

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 8:51 AM, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:

> ///Rather, the purpose is to inoculate the killer against the spirit of
> the dead person by creating a link of identity between the two, ///
>
> Hmmm … this certainly is a new speculation as far as I am concerned! For
> me, “inoculation” is something medicinal and physical, not ritual and
> literary. I’d like to learn more about it. Please educate me.
>
>
> ///the idea being that the dead spirit would not try to harm itself.///
>
> This statement is even more confusing. 'Dead spirit harming itself?' What
> does that mean? You should educate me.
>
> ++++++++++
>
> There are quite a few references to “cannibalism” in Old Tamil (Sangam
> literature, Cilappatikaram, Manimekalai), Kalingathupparani, and a later
> hagiographic Tamil literature (Periyapuranam) perhaps depicting the
> later-developed kāpālika (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapalika)
> tradition.
>
> However, none of the Tamil references point to “acquiring” the other
> party’s (== the consumed ones’) flesh or life. And, the consumed ones were
> not always a king’s enemies.
>
> I wish scholars would abstain from making sweeping statements about a
> foreign culture/literature.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> rajam
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2016, at 12:46 PM, George Hart <glhart at berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
> This may be true in some instances of cannibalism, but I don’t think it
> applies when someone eats the flesh of an enemy he has killed. Rather, the
> purpose is to inoculate the killer against the spirit of the dead person by
> creating a link of identity between the two, the idea being that the dead
> spirit would not try to harm itself. Why would you need the strength of
> someone you are already strong enough to kill? If that were the purpose of
> consuming your enemy, you might acquire the weakness he has shown by being
> defeated and lose the strength you already had that allowed you to prevail.
> In the Sangam poems, we find the ritual of the war sacrifice, in which body
> parts of dead enemies are ceremonially cooked (boiled), though there is no
> evidence that the resultant “food” was actually eaten. And in the
> Kaliṅkattupparaṇi, there are long descriptions of ghosts and macabre
> deities feasting on the war dead. George
>
> On Apr 25, 2016, at 11:54 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> “The meaning of cannibalism is that , by consuming your enemy , you
> inherit his powers. In “The Story of the Grandmother” , a folk version of
> “Little Red Riding Hood” the girl eats his grandmother’s flesh and drinks
> her blood, which has an ambiguous purpose; she is accused of cannibalism,
> but a deeper implication is that she acquires the wisdom of the progenitrix
> which helps her trick the wolf/werewolf. This notion of ingesting the older
> often took the form of ritual meals. To eat a symbolical figure signified
> receiving magical power.”
> ----- Folktales and Fairy Tales: Traditions and Texts from around the
> World
>
> By Donald Haase Ph.D., Anne E. Duggan Ph.D., pp 364-365
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:51 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Prof. Karp,
>>
>> You must be aware of these words from the Bible. “You Must Eat My Flesh”
>> I found a discussion here:
>>
>> http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-jesus-meant-when-he-said-you-must-eat-my-flesh
>>
>> There are huge number of pages discussing these biblical words.
>>
>> What struck me is, Jesus the Guru figure asks to eat his flesh and drink
>> his blood.
>>
>> There seems to be some esoteric or mystic similarity between the two
>> expressions.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -N
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
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>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
>>> To: Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>> Cc: Dipak Bhattacharya <dipak.d2004 at gmail.com>, indology <
>>> indology at list.indology.info>
>>> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:02:02 +0000 (UTC)
>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Eating flesh of a jogi, a magician, a healer
>>> The principle is basically the same - there is a special power in the
>>> remains of those considered to be spiritually advanced. Compare European
>>> saintly relics.
>>>
>>> Grisly, indeed.
>>>
>>> Dean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>> *To:* Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
>>> *Cc:* Dipak Bhattacharya <dipak.d2004 at gmail.com>; indology <
>>> indology at list.indology.info>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2016 10:39 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Eating flesh of a jogi, a magician, a healer
>>>
>>> In Śahr Safidon ki Kahani it is the guru (Dhanthar Baid, Mbh.'s
>>> Dhanvantari) who orders his disciples to cut and and eat his body - so that
>>> his healing powers would not be lost.
>>>
>>> Best, also -
>>>
>>> Artur
>>>
>>> 2016-04-25 18:35 GMT+02:00 Dean Michael Anderson <
>>> eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>:
>>>
>>> The place to look would be the texts and tales of "left-handed" tantra.
>>> I'm not familiar with the older texts but I do know that in places with
>>> famous burning grounds like Varanasi and Kathmandu the families guard the
>>> bodies to prevent tantriks from eating the flesh of the deceased. I have
>>> read about this in modern stories, and talked to people who have seen it.
>>> It is certainly very much still alive in the minds of modern Indians and
>>> Nepalis.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Dean Anderson
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>> In "Śahr Safidon ki kahani" (published by Richard Temple, The Legends
>>> of the Panjab , Vol. I (No XVI,
>>> 
>>> Princess Niwal Daî, As su
>>> n
>>> g
>>> b
>>> y t
>>> wo
>>>  s
>>> c
>>> a
>>> v
>>> e
>>> n
>>> gers
>>> f
>>> ro
>>> m
>>> Bi
>>> b
>>> iyâl
>>> V
>>> illage
>>> n
>>> ear A
>>> mb
>>> âlâ),
>>> 
>>> Bombay 1884 [Reprints: 1962, 1977] -
>>>
>>> his disciples eat flesh of their Guru, Dhanthar Baid - in order to gain
>>> his powers  Is this motif found somewhere else in Indian narratives?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Artur Karp
>>>
>>> Warsaw
>>> Poland
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

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