[INDOLOGY] Misunderstood origins

Tue Apr 12 11:27:22 UTC 2016

Thank you, Cristophe, for drawing our attention to Jayaratha’s review in
his blog entry, which is definitely worth reading. The entry does, however,
not entirely do justice to Bronkhorst’s position, when it says that “… one
has to accept this new chronology, which places the Upaniṣads *after *Buddhism
rather than before it, …” (J’s emphasis). Bronkhorst’s position is in fact
a weaker one. He concludes that “the notion of karmic retribution in the
earliest relevant Upaniṣadic (i.e. Vedic) passages has been added to
material that is devoid of it“ (GM p. 122). If I understand this correctly,
Bronkhorst takes the older Upaniṣads in their present form as the result of
an redactorial process, in which the (sporadic) references to
karma-and-rebirth theories were added to textual passages exclusively
dealing with rebirth (but not with karmic retribution as its cause).

I wonder whether critical editions of the older and middle Upaniṣads could
not provide a more solid basis for research in the early religious history
of South Asia than the presently available editions do.

Best wishes,

Philipp

2016-04-12 12:02 GMT+02:00 Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be
>:

> To be complete, there is also this on-line review (by whom?) of Bronkhorst
> 2007, which refers also to Samuel's work:
> http://jayarava.blogspot.be/2012/07/revisiting-greater-magadha.html
>
> Le 12 avr. 2016 à 10:33, Philipp Maas <philipp.a.maas at gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> Dear Artur,
>
> Geoffrey Samuel (*The Origins of Yoga and Tantra*. *Indic Religions to
> the Thirteenth Century*. Cambridge etc: Cambridge University Press, 2008)
> independently from Bronkhorst arrived at a historical narrative that is
> similar to the one told in “Greater Magadha”. Moreover, the chapter on the
> early history of Karma and rebirth in South Asia by Wilhelm Halbfass (*Karma
> und Wiedergeburt im indischen Denken*. Kreuzlingen, München: Hugendubel,
> 2000, pp. 37-63), which draws upon a considerable amount of earlier primary
> sources and secondary literature, can be read as supporting important
> aspects of Bronkhorst’s “Greater Magadha Hypothesis”.
>
>
> Best, Philipp
>
> 2016-04-11 20:42 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>:
>
>> Dear Tim,
>>
>> Could you, please, upload your review to Academia.edu? A poorly-educated
>> guy like me (no irony here!) needs further reading and learning. And
>> appreciates any occasion for it.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Artur
>>
>> PS. I try to organize my thoughts re the relics of the Buddha and amrita.
>> Some simple parallels - and a sticky ground, contradictory concepts and
>> interpretations. In need of new - lodestar-like - ideas.
>>
>> A.
>>
>> 2016-04-11 18:33 GMT+02:00 Lubin, Tim <LubinT at wlu.edu>:
>>
>>> And now also:
>>>
>>> Timothy Lubin, “Greater Magadha and the New Brahmanism: Recent
>>> Publications by Johannes Bronkhorst,”* Religious Studies Review* 41.3
>>> (2015): 93–100.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> TL
>>>
>>>
>>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>>> "Michaels, Axel" <michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>
>>> Date: Monday, April 11, 2016 at 12:26 PM
>>> To: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Misunderstood origins
>>>
>>> More reviews on Johannes Bronkhorst’s thesis: Konrad Klaus in *Zeitschrift
>>> der Deutschen Morgenländischen Gesellschaft * 161 (2011): 216-221,
>>> Jason Neelis in *Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society* 18.3 (2008):
>>> 381-3; John Cort, *Religious Studies Review* 33.2 (2007): 171-172;
>>> K.T.S. Sarao in *Orientalische Literatur-Zeitung* 103.2 (2008):
>>> 250-254; Rüdiger Schmitt in * Acta Orientalia* 69 2008: 319-32, and
>>> Alexander Wynne in the *H-Buddhism* List (July 2011).
>>>
>>> Best, xel Michaels
>>>
>>> Von: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> im Auftrag von
>>> Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>> Datum: Monday 11 April 2016 at 12:30
>>> An: Roland Steiner <steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de>
>>> Cc: "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Misunderstood origins
>>>
>>> > a bit to start a discussion? ;)
>>>
>>> Frankly?
>>>
>>> Quite frankly - I'd rather prefer following the discussion on the
>>> contents of Prof. Bronkhorst's paper.
>>>
>>> Or - is there somewhere a trace of the Buddhologists' (Historians of
>>> India, Historians of Indian Literature) reaction to its theses?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Artur Karp
>>>
>>> 2016-04-11 9:42 GMT+02:00 Roland Steiner <steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de>:
>>>
>>>> In support of Prof. Silk's remarks I would like to point to the
>>>> following short paper by Claudius Naumann:
>>>>
>>>> "Versiegende Quellen. Einige Anmerkungen über den Sinn und Unsinn von
>>>> Internet-Verweisen in wissenschaftlichen Arbeiten". In: Zeitschrift der
>>>> deutschen morgenländischen Gesellschaft 162.2 (2012), pp. 460-464.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Roland Steiner
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Philipp A. Maas
> Universitätsassistent
> Institut für Südasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
> Universität Wien
> Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
> A-1090 Wien
> Österreich
> univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas
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>
> –––––––––––––––––––
> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
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-- 
Dr. Philipp A. Maas
Universitätsassistent
Institut für Südasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
Universität Wien
Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
A-1090 Wien
Österreich
univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas

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